It does not look good for Target. Web Accessibility news

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:11:15
GMT SpaceGirl scribed:

Proprietary is not always bad though. Look at the mess of the browser
market - not ONE browser meets the specifications the browser
manufactures agreed. Even worse than that, each implements most of the
standards slightly differently. Flash works the same everywhere, on
almost all platforms. If only Open software could even come close to
that. This is the problem though: There are a lot of very smart geeks
in the world and they all have their own arrogant belief that their
way is best, without actually thinking about Users. This is another
reason why so much OS software is horrible to look at. Created by
programmers, who can only think like programmers.

Average folks aren't programmers - or designers for that matter.

Yep, browsers do pretty much suck at html/css interpolation - all of
them. My personal ranking (for everything), best-to-worst, is Mozilla,
Ie6, and Opera. Ie7 is waaaaay down on the list. But none of them are
anywhere near "right as rain".

Also, I think I'm getting to like Flash/Flex more. In the above "Flash
Wars", I saw some pretty darn good sites. Even if they weren't all they
should be, they could have been with the right touch. <Sigh>, I s'pose
I'll have to just hitch up mah trousers and learn the damn stuff before
technology overtakes me - again. Despite its nostaglic exigency,
html/css does seem very much like a dead end in the future - especially
with the browser-barons' lack of concordance.

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:26:39
GMT SpaceGirl scribed:

Many phones don't have ANY buttons these days, so the "size" is
irrelevant. It's part of the phones OS and often can be adjusted. The
buttons are virtual, drawn on the screen.

But then I'm a girl, and I have small hands, so I really never had
problems typing on my regular Sony phone either (okay, I'll admit
it... I have 2 cellphones and about to get a 3rd).

Isn't the iphone kinda expensive, not to mention the contract? And aren't
there "extras" as well? The cheapest service contract I've seen so far is
$60.00/mo. (Or are you getting a company phone?)

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:53:53
GMT William Gill scribed:

Judges are also human, and thus potentially swayed by many things.
Checks and balances should be central to any solution.
Yep.


‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
men to do nothing.’
Edmund Burke

Yep again.

And don't expect ANY fix to be a permanent solution.

No, things do change. Flexibility is important, and that lacking is
really a good part of what's wrong with the legal community right now.

The system in the
U.S. is not good because 231 years ago several wise men found the
"perfect system." It is good because they had the wisdom to build a
system with methods for implementing significant change, without the
bloodshed usually inherent to such change.

Well, I agree in principle, but not all those changes have been for the
better. I think I can sum-up my philosophy by reciting that Freedon
isn't free; it takes constant "watch-dogging" and safeguarding if you
want you and your children to have the kind of freedoms we really desire.
A "head-in-the-sand" attitude will ultimately enslave you. No matter who
gets screwed, _you_ lose. Of course, all this takes effort, and there's
the rub. When you have it good, you're not nearly as motivated as some
jihad-chanting asshole who thinks _he_ has the solution to the world's
problems as well.

 

[dorayme]

A typical troll - always trying to change the subject when you don't
have a good response.

You can profile trolls?

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

You can profile trolls?

There are some things common to almost all trolls - like trying to
change the subject when you pin them down.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
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==================

 

[dorayme]

There are some things common to almost all trolls - like trying to
change the subject when you pin them down.

You claim that it is a necessary (as distinct from a sufficient
condition)? OK. Let's go along with this for a mo. It still does
not mean Travis is a troll. There needs to be other conditions
too. I am sensitive to any one trying to beat Travis up. I am
possessive about Republicans. If there is a beating to be done of
them, I am badly wanting the job...

Anyway, I think you are quite wrong in a fundamental sense. You
have an unsophisticated view of trolling. My experience is that
the prima facie non-troll folk do the subject changing after the
initial (admittedly trollish) change in the thread. Let me
perfectly blunt: in a troll's sub-branch, I have detected as much
subject changing initiatives among the non trolls as among the
trolls.

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

You claim that it is a necessary (as distinct from a sufficient
condition)? OK. Let's go along with this for a mo. It still does
not mean Travis is a troll. There needs to be other conditions
too. I am sensitive to any one trying to beat Travis up. I am
possessive about Republicans. If there is a beating to be done of
them, I am badly wanting the job...

That's fine. But if he had an argument, he wouldn't keep trying to
claim someone else's opinion was irrelevant and try to change the subject.

Anyway, I think you are quite wrong in a fundamental sense. You
have an unsophisticated view of trolling. My experience is that
the prima facie non-troll folk do the subject changing after the
initial (admittedly trollish) change in the thread. Let me
perfectly blunt: in a troll's sub-branch, I have detected as much
subject changing initiatives among the non trolls as among the
trolls.

Quite frankly, I don't give a damn. I have challenged him repeatedly to
come up with some facts. He refuses and tries to change the subject.
That is troll behavior. Plain and simple.

--
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Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[dorayme]

That's fine. But if he had an argument, he wouldn't keep trying to
claim someone else's opinion was irrelevant and try to change the subject.


Quite frankly, I don't give a damn. I have challenged him ...

Ah! Changing the subject!

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

Ah! Changing the subject!

Nope. Brining it back to the original subject, troll.

--
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Remove the "x" from my email address
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JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[dorayme]

Ah! Changing the subject!

Nope. Brining it back to the original subject, troll.[/QUOTE]

So, you are saying, it is a non-troll thing to do to go back to
an earlier subject when a person does not want to pursue a
particular side thread of a thread but that one who does want to
pursue a side thread and stay on it is a troll? Methinks this
troll attribution is a murky quantity <g>

 

[Mark Goodge]

That's kinda weird... Flash doesn't contain any language stuff. I think
your machine is buggered, or they really have done something funky
inside that SWF (it's not default behavior).

It's not a problem this end. I tried it on more than one machine -
same error each time.

I agree with the rest of your comments though, but it's not the way
ranking works. It's a combination of inbound links + content. Get enough
inbound links, make sure the content is published as an alternative
stream (RSS, or an alternative metatag), or provide a text version of
the content on the side. Remember earlier I was talking about Flash just
being one UI of many applicable to site - well these guys got that wrong
in this case.

Pagerank is also a measure of popularity. A Flash-only site can get
good Pagerank if enough people think it's worth linking to; what this
instance demonstrates is that no-one thinks it is.

Grey area, but I do sort of agree. It's pretty bad practice -- and
wouldn't work in any of MY sites... I have breakout code in all my sites
to prevent anything we work on being re-framed by a 3rd party.

In all the cases where this has gone to court, the framer has lost.
That makes it a pretty black shade of grey, to me.

Mark

 

[Mark Goodge]

-yet-. Now that large screen format phones, such as the iPhone are
around, with unlimited data contracts by default + free wifi, we're
going to see an explosion in mobile browsing I think. Everyone is
rushing to copy the iPhone feature for feature. There are 5 or 6 similar
"web" phones out this Christmas, and most networks (in Europe anyway)
are bundling unrestricted web access & unlimited data contracts with
these phones. This is a HUGE market change. Until now, very few networks
offered uncapped data rates unless you were on a business contract.

There's no such thing as "unlimited data". Contracts that offer it are
either subject to a "Fair Use Policy" (which simply means that there
is a limit, but they won't tell you what it is) or they're on
contended bandwidth (which means there is a limit, but they don't know
what it is either).

In my experience, "unlimited" tariffs are more common on consumer
contracts, partly because consumers are less likely to be tech-savvy
enough to realise that "unlimited" doesn't mean there aren't any
limits and partly because consumers are less likely to push the device
to its limits anyway. Business users, on the other hand, tend to want
to know exactly what their limits are, and to have an SLA that
guarantees they'll be able to use everything up to the limit.

Mark

 

[SpaceGirl]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:26:39
GMT SpaceGirl scribed:


Isn't the iphone kinda expensive, not to mention the contract? And aren't
there "extras" as well? The cheapest service contract I've seen so far is
$60.00/mo. (Or are you getting a company phone?)

£35 per month ($70 US), but that includes all data, 200 minutes, 200
texts, plus £270 ($540) for the phone. There are no other charges on 18
month contract. So yeah, very expensive, but worth it IMO!

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

And that's where I strongly disagree. That's when a website gets really
frustrating really fast.

Only because you don't understand the technology though. Flash doesn't
need to be fancy. Sometimes it can offer something small and more
efficient than HTML+CSS. While generally I'd agree that there are some
things you shouldn't really try have Flash do, completely writing it off
is terribly short sighted unless you are a secret Flash genius and know
without a doubt "it won't work". Flash is -so- powerful these days, you
can create practically anything in it (you could, for example, write
your own web browser INSIDE Flash if you wanted); I know as a Flash
person I'm not smart enough to say exactly where Flash's boundaries lay.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

Not true. Absolutely plain HTML markup with no CSS or special
"engineering" is accessible by default! A screen reader can read it, a
text-only browser can access it, a cell phone can display it, anyone can
adjust the font-size to suit both resolution and viewport, and a robot
can index it.

Depends how you define accessible, I think. Accessibility goes quite a
way beyond "does it render on this platform" IM(A?)O.


--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

To get some insight I traversed your sig links.

Not sure are they are solely just splash pages, or do they employ some
mysterious navigational method that eludes me?

LOL, um well, NLM is currently empty and BSJ won't launch til the new
year

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[Travis Newbury]

I disagree, and this is exactly what I was arguing. Flash COULD be used
for ANY of those... it depends on context - meaning the audience, the
content etc...

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home:http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[Travis Newbury]

I disagree, and this is exactly what I was arguing. Flash COULD be used
for ANY of those... it depends on context - meaning the audience, the
content etc...

Unfortunately you are disagreeing with something that was never said.
(you had to have misread what I typed)

I stated the kinds of things Flash does BEST (Flashes strong points).
No where did I say that these were the things one HAD to do in
flash.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Not true. Absolutely plain HTML markup with no CSS or special
"engineering" is accessible by default!

Even if they use frames?

 

[Travis Newbury]

Bullshit. Tell me he's wrong. And prove it.

Ok, I will tell you and prove it too. But first I need your help.
Please tell me, how he can compare the speed of building a site with
HTML/CSS against building the same site in flash, when he has no clue
how to build it in flash? The answer is he can't. Just like you can
not tell me who can run a 5K faster. You may have an OPINION about
who can run it faster, but your OPINION is meaningless because you
haven a clue how fast I can run a 5K.

You evade
the question and try to call it irrelevant. So the only assumption
anyone can make is that it is true.

Just what is the question I am evading?

Nope, and quite frankly, I don't care. And it has nothing to do with
the discussion at hand.

Are you really this lost?

A typical troll - always trying to change the subject when you don't
have a good response.
So again, I'm right.

Of course you are...