need a simple java programming environment

[Jason]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java in. I was thinking eclipse but
that looks like overkill for what I need.

Thank you.

 

[Lew]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java [sic] and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java [sic] in. I was thinking eclipse [sic] but
that looks like overkill for what I need.

The JDK, whatever the latest release is (currently 1.6.0_16).

Cygwin, if you use Windows.

A good editor such as vi or emacs.

When you're up to complicated builds, Ant.

For IDEs, when you get over your prejudice against them, Eclipse, NetBeans or
Oracle JDeveloper. Don't ever lose your ability to use the command line, though.

 

[Roedy Green]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java in. I was thinking eclipse but
that looks like overkill for what I need.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html
for some options.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"There is an evil which ought to be guarded against, in the indefinite accumulation of property,
from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by... corporations.
The power of all corporations aught to be limited in this respect.
The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses."
~ James Madison (born: 1751-03-16 died: 1836-06-28 at age: 85)

 

[Tom Anderson]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line. I
need to learn java and was wondering what might be the best environment
to learn and play with java in. I was thinking eclipse but that looks
like overkill for what I need.

The latest JDK and a good editor. Which editor you choose will depend on
platform and taste: what OS are you using?

tom

 

[Tom Anderson]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java [sic] and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java [sic] in. I was thinking
eclipse [sic] but that looks like overkill for what I need.

The JDK, whatever the latest release is (currently 1.6.0_16).

Cygwin, if you use Windows.

Could you explain why?

tom

 

[markspace]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java in. I was thinking eclipse but
that looks like overkill for what I need.

I disagree with the others. NetBeans is a simple IDE and is much better
than trying to hack on the command line. I used to be a big command
line hacker but no more. The amount of real labor saving that modern
IDEs provide is just too big of a productivity boost.

I tried Eclipse too long ago and also found it confusing. NetBeans was
more approachable for me in the beginning.

<http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/>

Also, Sun has free online classes for Java, the first one here tells you
how to download NetBeans and gets you started using it, which might be
helpful.

<http://www.javapassion.com/javaintro/>

(The author of that website, Sang Shin, is a Sun employee and researcher.)

 

[Lew]

Could you explain why?

Because it includes so many useful utilities, e.g., "find" and "ls"
and a bunch of good editors.

In my case, it also regularizes my shell environment so that I don't
have to change mentality when I alternate between Linux and Windows.
Those who don't use *NIX systems will be less impressed with that,
although the power of, say, "bash" may still appeal even to those who
work exclusively with Windows.

 

[Lew]

I disagree with the others.  NetBeans is a simple IDE and is much better
than trying to hack on the command line.  I used to be a big command

No one said not to use an IDE, except the OP and that only
indirectly.

line hacker but no more.  The amount of real labor saving that modern
IDEs provide is just too big of a productivity boost.

I tried Eclipse too long ago and also found it confusing.  NetBeans was
more approachable for me in the beginning.

Editor War!

<http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/>

Also, Sun has free online classes for Java, the first one here tells you
how to download NetBeans and gets you started using it, which might be
helpful.

<http://www.javapassion.com/javaintro/>

(The author of that website, Sang Shin, is a Sun employee and researcher.)

It is more powerful to use an IDE when you understand the command
line, and test and production builds should always be done outside an
IDE.

I use Eclipse (and its offspring) and NetBeans myself. I, too, prefer
NetBeans. (I also prefer emacs over vi.) I also use the command
line. Knowledge of the command line (and, say, Ant) strengthens my
power over NetBeans.

 

[markspace]

Editor War!

Hopefully not. I put the bit about "long ago" in there deliberately to
forestall any such arguments.

It is more powerful to use an IDE when you understand the command
line, and test and production builds should always be done outside an
IDE.

This is all true, but the OP asked for a simple solution. Frankly, a
good IDE is the easiest and simplest, imo. Integrating to a team build
environment is automatically a more complex task, and I assume that's
not what the OP is doing right now.

 

[Tom Anderson]

Because it includes so many useful utilities, e.g., "find" and "ls" and
a bunch of good editors.

Fair enough. It's perhaps worth mentioning that you can get quite a few of
the standard unix tools on Windows without Cygwin:

http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html

Last time i was hacking on a PC, i found this an easier way to go than
Cygwin - Cygwin is an attempt to pretend you're not on a PC at all, which
can't help but be a patchy illusion, whereas the gnuwin32 stuff just adds
tools to the cmd.exe environment. Mind you, the last time i used Cygwin
was probably 10 years ago, so perhaps i'm comparing apples and extinct
megaflora here.

In my case, it also regularizes my shell environment so that I don't
have to change mentality when I alternate between Linux and Windows.

Yes, that's helpful.

Those who don't use *NIX systems will be less impressed with that,
although the power of, say, "bash" may still appeal even to those who
work exclusively with Windows.

Ah, now bash is the one thing you can't get through gnuwin32. There is at
least one bash port to Windows, but i never managed to get it to work
properly.

tom

 

[Gilbert Rebhan]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java in. I was thinking eclipse but
that looks like overkill for what I need.

Thank you.

getting used to one of those full featured java IDE's =
free
eclipse, netbeans, JDeveloper
commercial
IntelliJ IDEA

will pay off / is a must - even if some people will tell you
that vi/notepad .. is all you need ;-) - for serious java programming.

btw. Netbeans has a GREAT ruby/jruby support also =
http://www.netbeans.org/features/ruby/index.html
there's even a special ruby edition, see
http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html
and grep the ruby specific download


others, more simple =

BlueJ
http://www.bluej.org/index.html

there's even a BlueJ integration for NetBeans
http://www.bluej.org/netbeans/

Jeliot 3 rocks ! => a Program Visualization application /
algorithm theatre
http://cs.joensuu.fi/~jeliot/description.php
i wish someone would write an equivalent for ruby

DrJava IDE
http://drjava.org/

a great Editor with good JavaSupport
http://www.jedit.org/

another great Editor for Windows only
http://www.pspad.com/en/


Regards, Gilbert

 

[Tom Anderson]

Hopefully not. I put the bit about "long ago" in there deliberately to
forestall any such arguments.

ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR!!!

This is all true, but the OP asked for a simple solution. Frankly, a
good IDE is the easiest and simplest, imo.

I really, really think that's not the case. Going from zero to an IDE is a
daunting task; start with a programmer's editor (TextPad, TextWrangler,
Notepad2 something like that), then move on to an IDE in time. Certainly,
an IDE makes programming much quicker and less laborious, and so more fun,
but it has a difficult learning curve of its own.

Admittedly, i've only used Eclipse. I can imagine that NetBeans is easier
- it could hardly be any harder.

tom

 

[Lew]

I tried Eclipse too long ago and also found it confusing.
NetBeans was more approachable for me in the beginning.

No worries. You picked the right one so you get no argument.

ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR!!!

I'd use cuneiform, but they really chisel you for the medium. Plus
backspacing is a bitch.

I really, really think that's not the case. Going from zero to an IDE is
a daunting task; start with a programmer's editor (TextPad,
TextWrangler, Notepad2 something like that), then move on to an IDE in
time. Certainly, an IDE makes programming much quicker and less
laborious, and so more fun, but it has a difficult learning curve of its
own.

Admittedly, i've [sic] only used Eclipse. I can imagine that NetBeans is
easier - it could hardly be any harder.

I suspect it's a question of style, or perhaps imprinting. I find NetBeans
easier, too, but from time to time find myself wishing for a feature only
present or done differently in Eclipse. On balance I find NetBeans easier and
more direct to use, with a cleaner relationship to the underlying project files.

 

[Jason]

ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR!!!


I really, really think that's not the case. Going from zero to an IDE is a
daunting task; start with a programmer's editor (TextPad, TextWrangler,
Notepad2 something like that), then move on to an IDE in time. Certainly,
an IDE makes programming much quicker and less laborious, and so more fun,
but it has a difficult learning curve of its own.

Admittedly, i've only used Eclipse. I can imagine that NetBeans is easier
- it could hardly be any harder.

tom

Thank you for the comments. I am running Linux. I don't have any bad
feelings about tools like Eclipse. In fact, I just started a intro to
CS class at a university where Eclipse is THE platform. It's just that
in the little bit of playing I have done, I make this observation:
Tools like DrScheme, or IRB/Scite, make learning a language fun and
interactive. Every time I start up netbeans and eclipse and go through
tutorials, I find myself spending a lot of time configuring stuff and
opening windows. I guess I just need to be more patient, because I'm
sure the day will come when I get involved in larger projects that
require a large IDE. PS. Up to this point, I've been writing scripts
that help me with scientific computing at work.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

Lew wrote:

[ SNIP ]

This is all true, but the OP asked for a simple solution. Frankly, a
good IDE is the easiest and simplest, imo. Integrating to a team build
environment is automatically a more complex task, and I assume that's
not what the OP is doing right now.

Point being, you want the very first steps to be somewhat laborious.
Things like solving classpath issues when compiling & running on the
command line, learning how to write the basic stuff from scratch instead
of having an IDE generate it for you, researching the APIs through
standard Javadoc pages rather than having the IDE pull you along through
suggestion popups...it's better to get grounded in that first before
tackling an IDE.

There's a natural zone where an IDE suggests itself - just around the
time that you get tired of writing familiar boilerplate.

AHS

 

[markspace]

Point being, you want the very first steps to be somewhat laborious.
Things like solving classpath issues when compiling & running on the
command line, learning how to write the basic stuff from scratch instead

Honestly I'd go the other way. Learn the IDE first, then learn the
command line. There's a natural point there too where the IDE just
doesn't have the power to do what you want, and the command line is needed.

Skipping the boring repetitive bits is an advantage, imo. There's no
point to going through that, and anyone intelligent can grasp the
concept of the command line and scripts, and just plug in where then
need it.

 

[Lew]

There's a natural zone where an IDE suggests itself - just around the
time that you get tired of writing familiar boilerplate.

Or you need a debugger.

Or you're connecting to a database or running a web server or application
server. The IDEs are more than just development platforms, they're control
panels for external resources like servers and databases.

Mark Space's points about letting an IDE make your life easier at the
beginning are not infeasible *provided* that the student learn to do without
the IDE at some later point. It's also very useful to be conversant with more
than one brand of IDE.

IDE dependencies are anathema to a project and to a programmer's skill set.

 

[David Segall]

Fair enough. It's perhaps worth mentioning that you can get quite a few of
the standard unix tools on Windows without Cygwin:

http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html

Ah, now bash is the one thing you can't get through gnuwin32.

The Korn shell is close and included with SFU.

 

[David Segall]

I'm used to programming in ruby using IRB, scite and the command line.
I need to learn java and was wondering what might be the best
environment to learn and play with java in. I was thinking eclipse but
that looks like overkill for what I need.

I have a list of what I consider to be "full featured" Java IDEs at
<http://ide.profectus.com.au>. I suggest you try Netbeans for one of
your Ruby projects. If you think it is overkill then you will probably
find the entire list, including Eclipse, overkill for developing in
Java.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Or Windows Services for UNIX <http://tinyurl.com/mswsfu> which is a
free download from Microsoft.

I was interested in this some years ago but a couple of aspects deterred me.

"The product will not install on Windows 9x or Windows XP Home Edition
or Windows Vista".

275 MB