HTML or Dreamweaver?

[Violet]

I'm supposed to be starting up my on-line business in October and I
haven't written any pages yet.
I've made a non-commercial site in the past with 'FrontPage' but this
has to look professional & deal with orders & payments.

My Computer dealer says use Dreamweaver but I'm learning web design &
HTML which my tutor insists is a better way to make & update the site.

I've spent most of the night doing rough outlines of a few main pages &
I'm not nearly as quick as I used to be at learning new stuff.

I considered having it built for me in the first place but have heard a
lot of bad stories of how that can go wrong.

I'm floundering a bit & have had to go back to wotk full time so am
trying to get this done in any spare time I have, usually a night.
Would rally appreciate any advice or comments. Verity

 

[David Dorward]

My Computer dealer says use Dreamweaver but I'm learning web design &
HTML which my tutor insists is a better way to make & update the site.

Dreamweaver is a tool that may speed up your production of webpages - but if
you are going to produce something of reasonable quality, it is essential
that you understand what it is trying to do.

Learn HTML. Learn CSS. Become proficient at producing webpages by hand, and
then see if you can produce good quality pages with the tool.

(On a cynical note, dabs.com sell Dreamweaver for about £350, so I'm sure
your dealer would /love/ you to buy a copy from him for your development.
Developing by hand calls for a text editor, and there are many very good
text editors available for free.)

 

[verity]

Dreamweaver is a tool that may speed up your production of webpages - butif
you are going to produce something of reasonable quality, it is essential
that you understand what it is trying to do.

Learn HTML. Learn CSS. Become proficient at producing webpages by hand, and
then see if you can produce good quality pages with the tool.

(On a cynical note, dabs.com sell Dreamweaver for about £350, so I'm sure
your dealer would /love/ you to buy a copy from him for your development.
Developing by hand calls for a text editor, and there are many very good
text editors available for free.)

Thank you so much David, I needed that advice, It reinforced my 'gut'
reaction because my 'dealer' also *advised* me about a lot of other
stuff I really need for my business.
I'm getting some general business advice but not from web design
specialists & everyone seems to have an 'angle' or to want to give
some advice rather than admit they don't really know the best moves
forward.

I've had other business ventures & done various projects which have
called on me to use IT skills but I think the reall problem may be that
at 51, I'm maybe biting off more than I can chew.
I think my ideas are so good, I'm better aiming at a trial web-site
with some low key products to see what kinks there are in the complete
business system, before hitting the market with my own product line.

Thanks again, I'll stay in touch with this group, & try & follow the
threads. Verity

 

[Sally Thompson]

Thank you so much David, I needed that advice, It reinforced my 'gut'
reaction because my 'dealer' also *advised* me about a lot of other
stuff I really need for my business.
I'm getting some general business advice but not from web design
specialists & everyone seems to have an 'angle' or to want to give
some advice rather than admit they don't really know the best moves
forward.

I've had other business ventures & done various projects which have
called on me to use IT skills but I think the reall problem may be that
at 51, I'm maybe biting off more than I can chew.
I think my ideas are so good, I'm better aiming at a trial web-site
with some low key products to see what kinks there are in the complete
business system, before hitting the market with my own product line.

You're never too old! I think you might be surprised at the probable age
range of this group. When getting started, I found the tutorials at
w3schools were easy to follow and experiment with although I now understand
there are one or two things on there that the experts disagree with:

Thanks again, I'll stay in touch with this group, & try & follow the
threads.

When I started reading the technical groups (I think this was the first),
about 99% of the content was over my head, but I persevered. Now I
understand most of it (and ignore the bits which are over my head<g>).

A gentle hint. You have posted almost the same message in alt.www.webmaster.
To save those who subscribe to both groups, it is better to cross-post
rather than multi-post, then those of us who have the appropriate filters on
our newsreaders only have to read the message once

 

[Travis Newbury]

My Computer dealer says use Dreamweaver but I'm learning web design &
HTML which my tutor insists is a better way to make & update the site.

First, knowing HTML/CSS, coding correctly, and using Dreamweaver are
not mutually exclusive. Dreamweaver is just an Editor. YOU control
the code.

Second, HTML/CSS is child's play in comparison to web design.

 

[verity]

You're never too old! I think you might be surprised at the probable age
range of this group. When getting started, I found the tutorials at
w3schools were easy to follow and experiment with although I now understand
there are one or two things on there that the experts disagree with:


When I started reading the technical groups (I think this was the first),
about 99% of the content was over my head, but I persevered. Now I
understand most of it (and ignore the bits which are over my head<g>).

A gentle hint. You have posted almost the same message in alt.www.webmaster.
To save those who subscribe to both groups, it is better to cross-post
rather than multi-post, then those of us who have the appropriate filters on
our newsreaders only have to read the message once



--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk

Thank you so, so much. I have never cross-posted, so another thing I
can try. Only started posting a couple of months ago because I had to
for the on-line course I was doing. (Web Design).
Love your house & the Church.
I don't know much about William Morris only the quote which I often use
to my children about "not having anything in the house....." I hate
clutter, but then I hate dusting

 

[verity]

First, knowing HTML/CSS, coding correctly, and using Dreamweaver are
not mutually exclusive. Dreamweaver is just an Editor. YOU control
the code.

Second, HTML/CSS is child's play in comparison to web design.

That makes me feel happier, I've done a simple design before using
Front Page but was sort of thinking I might just copy styles of sites
that I liked.
Is that a big no-no for purists?

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

That makes me feel happier, I've done a simple design before using
Front Page but was sort of thinking I might just copy styles of sites
that I liked.

Have a look here for basic HTML and CSS:
http://htmldog.com/

Templates I like:
http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/
http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/

Is that a big no-no for purists?

FrontPlague? Number 4 on the list of Worst Editors. <g>

4. Microsoft FrontPage
3. Microsoft Word
2. Microsoft Excel
1. Microsoft Publisher

 

[David Segall]

I'm supposed to be starting up my on-line business in October and I
haven't written any pages yet.
I've made a non-commercial site in the past with 'FrontPage' but this
has to look professional & deal with orders & payments.

If "deal with orders and payments" means a shopping cart as in most
commercial web sites you _cannot_ write this yourself by October. Find
a hosting company that offers this facility and use their web design
tools to customize your site.

HTML is not sufficient for writing the code on the server required to
process orders and payments. I like Dreamweaver for writing HTML but
that won't help with the server-side processing.

 

[David Segall]

That makes me feel happier, I've done a simple design before using
Front Page but was sort of thinking I might just copy styles of sites
that I liked.
Is that a big no-no for purists?

<http://www.oswd.org/> has 1637 free web site designs that you can use
with no risk of infringing someone's copyright. However, I have posted
elsewhere why you should stick to the choices offered by a hosting
company that offers a shopping cart.

 

[verity]

Have a look here for basic HTML and CSS:
http://htmldog.com/

Templates I like:
http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/
http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/


FrontPlague? Number 4 on the list of Worst Editors. <g>

4. Microsoft FrontPage
3. Microsoft Word
2. Microsoft Excel
1. Microsoft Publisher

Thank you so much, everyone is being so kind, I am raring to go. The
sites seem very helpful, will check them out in detail tonight.

BTW hope you don't think I am being too personal, but I think your name
is super, do you live in the Southern USA?

 

[verity]

If "deal with orders and payments" means a shopping cart as in most
commercial web sites you _cannot_ write this yourself by October. Find
a hosting company that offers this facility and use their web design
tools to customize your site.

HTML is not sufficient for writing the code on the server required to
process orders and payments. I like Dreamweaver for writing HTML but
that won't help with the server-side processing.

I think I understand that, you were very clear. I might put it off till
next year but I shouldn't really because the orders will have a
seasonal pattern.

Not sure I actually need a shopping cart;
think I will go for contact by answerphone, fax or email; so would I
need a shopping cart?
Or is it best to do that so I can readily expand - "think big!"

I won't be having that many products to start with, mostly stuff I am
designing & manufactoring myself. I already have a lot of the stuff
I've designed and used, when I wanted to sell it via a similar site, I
was appalled at how much commission they wanted just for advertising &
processing orders.
For other reasons also, I thought, start small in a small but not
crowded niche & who knows?

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

If "deal with orders and payments" means a shopping cart as in most
commercial web sites you _cannot_ write this yourself by October.

Elaborate on the source of this statement please.

 

[Andy Dingley]

Elaborate on the source of this statement please.

I could offer a logical proof of this, but I find the empirical
evidence more convincing. People who are asking "Should I use
Dreamweaver to program my HTML?" do not have a good success rate at
delivering shopping carts a mere 4 months later. Some of them do
achieve it, but the results are rarely good, or secure.

No-one should be writing shopping carts these days. Most people,
including most web developers, just aren't skilled enough to do it.
Even if you were, you'd be too valuable to waste your time on
re-inventing such a task. It isn't '99 any more - there are now
_plenty_ of off-the-shelf solutions for this, no need to build your
own.

To the OP, find some hosting with a decent bundled cart. Build around
and customise that, don't start from scratch. Expect to pay real money
to a real web developer to achieve this (You wouldn't do your own
shopfitting, would you?). Look for recommendations from here or a.w.w.
for both.

 

[David Segall]

I think I understand that, you were very clear. I might put it off till
next year but I shouldn't really because the orders will have a
seasonal pattern.

Not sure I actually need a shopping cart;
think I will go for contact by answerphone, fax or email; so would I
need a shopping cart?

No. You can finish that before October. If you are satisfied with a
simple page like mine <http://profectus.com.au/contact.html>, with
some instructions for payment, then go for it. Once you need any
processing on the server there is a huge leap in complexity.

I suggest you pick a design from <http://www.oswd.org/> because it is
easier to change an existing site than start from a blank page. To
make your life easier when you come back here to ask for advice choose
"yes" in the CSS drop-down on the advanced search page . You can
download a free thirty day trial of Dreamweaver from

Or is it best to do that so I can readily expand - "think big!"

I won't answer that. I have run a one-person business for many years!

I won't be having that many products to start with, mostly stuff I am
designing & manufactoring myself. I already have a lot of the stuff
I've designed and used, when I wanted to sell it via a similar site, I
was appalled at how much commission they wanted just for advertising &
processing orders.
For other reasons also, I thought, start small in a small but not
crowded niche & who knows?

Do it and do it this year. Good luck.

 

[David Segall]

Elaborate on the source of this statement please.

I don't understand your request. I am the source of this statement and
I don't think that you are interested in my biography.

If you want me to justify any part of the sentence let me know which
part(s) and I will try. Actually, if it is the "most commercial web
sites" bit I'll resile now. I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of
turnover (excluding B2B)is generated by sites with some form of
shopping cart but I have no evidence that it is the majority of sites.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I could offer a logical proof of this, but I find the empirical
evidence more convincing. People who are asking "Should I use
Dreamweaver to program my HTML?" do not have a good success rate at
delivering shopping carts a mere 4 months later. Some of them do
achieve it, but the results are rarely good, or secure.

No-one should be writing shopping carts these days. Most people,
including most web developers, just aren't skilled enough to do it.
Even if you were, you'd be too valuable to waste your time on
re-inventing such a task. It isn't '99 any more - there are now
_plenty_ of off-the-shelf solutions for this, no need to build your
own.

Oh, OP cannot by October, I misread the remark as it *shall be verboten
by October*. Agree, not for a novice and if done improperly is a serious
security risk for both vendor and customer...

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I don't understand your request. I am the source of this statement and
I don't think that you are interested in my biography.

As stated earlier, my error I misread your statement, no need for a bio.

 

[verity]

I could offer a logical proof of this, but I find the empirical
evidence more convincing. People who are asking "Should I use
Dreamweaver to program my HTML?" do not have a good success rate at
delivering shopping carts a mere 4 months later. Some of them do
achieve it, but the results are rarely good, or secure.

No-one should be writing shopping carts these days. Most people,
including most web developers, just aren't skilled enough to do it.
Even if you were, you'd be too valuable to waste your time on
re-inventing such a task. It isn't '99 any more - there are now
_plenty_ of off-the-shelf solutions for this, no need to build your
own.

To the OP, find some hosting with a decent bundled cart. Build around
and customise that, don't start from scratch. Expect to pay real money
to a real web developer to achieve this (You wouldn't do your own
shopfitting, would you?). Look for recommendations from here or a.w.w.
for both.

I get your drift and appreciate your advice, I'll certainly reconsider
it.
I was a programmer years ago & a Systems Analyst, I volunteered to make
a non-commercial site for a voluntary agency usong Frontpage & it
suited their needs. There is more to this than me wanting to start
another business, I want to be able to do it (for fun?) & I've had bad
reports of what people who have paid for a site, have actually
received.

 

[dorayme]

but I think the reall problem may be that
at 51,

Nonsense, you're a spring chicken...