Layout of this page

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

No, in 1996 WWW was pretty new and the technology for creating web pages
was still being figured out. There were no "real" web browsers (ones
that worked anyway) and the standards were still fairly fluid. Sites
from that era (even the good ones) are terrible by today's standards.

We were talking about colours contrast and if you know a little about
fashion...

It's not a trend thing, it's a technology thing.

Thank you for telling me (us) what you think on this subject.
However I still think that it is mostly a matter of taste.

Perhaps go have a look at http://www.coolhomepages.com and see what the
professionals are building these days.

Design your site on paper first. Then lay it out in PhotoShop or some
other graphics program. When you can stand back and look at your drafts
and you think that compares to a modern commercial site, then go and
build an actual page.

The system which you described works well if you have a beginning and an
end, not for a website which tries to present something new the whole time.
I know how the website should look but since I started building the website
I added new things, for example
glasses and then I had to modify the contents, that may happen again, so
what you wrote may-be good generally speaking but not ( in my opinion) for
this website and if you want to update often the website.

A good web site is as much about aesthetics and design sense as it is
about the technical bits and pieces. And it's all useless if you don't
have good content.

I agree. And I think it has a content.
You man not know much Italian, if you do you may like to read the page
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
for example.

 

[brucie]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:

Do you have a modem or ADSL?

neither i was on 2.6k dialup, i'm now on 512k (weeeeeeeeee!) satellite

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:



neither i was on 2.6k dialup, i'm now on 512k (weeeeeeeeee!) satellite

Ok.
2,6 is not that much.

But the problem is to choose between 2 options:
a) fewer pictures and a much faster download time which would be a great
advantage for those who
have 2.6k dialup
b) more pictures which may lock them who have broadband

There are quite many users in Sweden who have broadband, how many users
approximately use broadband in Australia?

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/sicilien.html



http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/es/bienvenidos.html

 

[brucie]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:

Ok. 2,6 is not that much.

the last time i dialed up it was 1.8k. it just kept getting
progressively worse. line quality and more people getting on the line
was the problem.

But the problem is to choose between 2 options:
a) fewer pictures and a much faster download time which would be a great
advantage for those who have 2.6k dialup

advantage for everyone

b) more pictures which may lock them who have broadband

i disagree.

There are quite many users in Sweden who have broadband, how many users
approximately use broadband in Australia?

land based broadband is available to about 2% of the population so users
would be somewhere below that. if you're willing to pay for it satellite
broadband is available to everyone for about $1600/month. my 512k is
$500/month (4gb limit).

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:



the last time i dialed up it was 1.8k. it just kept getting
progressively worse. line quality and more people getting on the line
was the problem.


advantage for everyone


i disagree.

You have 512k but there are people having some MBs here in Sweden and some
even use optical fibre connection! They can load the page in some secunds or
less!

land based broadband is available to about 2% of the population so users
would be somewhere below that. if you're willing to pay for it satellite
broadband is available to everyone for about $1600/month. my 512k is
$500/month (4gb limit).

I do not know the exact figures in Sweden but I assume that a much higher
procentage of people living in Sweden have broadband than 2%.
http://www.nua.com/surveys/index.cgi?f=VS&art_id=905357245&rel=true

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Too many thumbnails on the front page. Title text
for each image would improve usability.

Title text can be a good idea, it will take time, though.
Which images would you choose?
Statistics show that many visit that page so I would rather guess that many
users having high speed connection are just locked by these pictures.
On the one hand a decreasing number having ADSL would probably visit a page
with just some pictures:
on the other hand an increasing number of users having low speed connection
would probably visit the home page with fewer pictures.

I think you need a logo of some sort to place in
the top of all pages, it could be a plain <h1> in
a well-chosen color if you aren't an artist....

Yes,
it would probably improve the design.
However, I assume that there more important things to improve on the site
first.

Don't "brag" about your coding, it isn't
interesting for your customers to read whether the
pages are valid 4.01 or not. Place that
information on an "about" page.

Your contact form is a mess... It's impossible to
decide which question belongs to which field (the
questions are too long and elaborate). And as a
Norwegian, I do understand a bit of Swedish!

There are not many people who are familiar with intermediation for rent of
holidays lodgings.
The contact form is elaborate because the user needs get a lot of
information.
But I hope that I can use SSL and qualified electronic signatures or
qualified electronic signatures with accreditation
(qualifizierte Zertifikate mit Anbieterakkreditierung)
in the future

Sidan 1 om svensk keramik - Sidan 4 om italiensk
keramik: Try to sort the items into categories
instead. "Page 1" doesn't mean anything!

I share your opinion on this subject but that depends on that there are
always new articles coming.

 

[brucie]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:

You have 512k but there are people having some MBs here in Sweden and some
even use optical fibre connection! They can load the page in some secunds or
less!

australia is a third world country if you're not living on the coastal
strip. the further inland you go the worse it gets.

 

[Neal]

"brucie" skrev


You do not seem to have much to say in the last time.
I hope you are fine.

He's brucie, he's not fine. Here's why...

1) Too many pictures! Fills up even a big screen. Put words up there, have
pictures on another page.

2) Too many welcomes. I'm welcome already! Scrolled all the way through
all that. Either have a separate page for each language, or use a few less
languages.

3) There's really no "style" to the design. Looks like the label of a
medicine bottle. What do you want people to feel about your business?
Right now, I don't feel much based on the site.

Here's a page that makes me "feel" something. [http://www.timecube.com/]
It makes me feel the author is insane and desparate to bully me into
believing.

Here's another. [http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm] Calming, relaxing,
and a touch of elegance. (And a bit ignorant of accessibility too.)

Look at all sorts of sites. How do they make you feel? And how do they
accomplish that feeling? Then, develop a good idea of how you want your
visitor to feel, and do things which help that feeling happen.

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:


australia is a third world country if you're not living on the coastal
strip. the further inland you go the worse it gets.

Ok.
If I wanted to get much more users visiting the website from Australia it
would be very important to reduce the size of the homepage.
The problem is that I would need much more than that. For example, one needs
know what the Australian consumer law says about
e-commerce.
At the moment I am trying to sell wares only within the EU.

 

[brucie]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:

If I wanted to get much more users visiting the website from Australia it
would be very important to reduce the size of the homepage.

forget about australia we only have about 13 million on line. the vast
majority of the 934 million internet users use 56k dialup to access the
net. your pages are waaaaay too big.

At the moment I am trying to sell wares only within the EU.

you need to visit http://www.clickz.com/ and read all the articles about
what people like and dislike when they're trying to spend their money
online.

 

[SpaceGirl]

We were talking about colours contrast and if you know a little about
fashion...

Garish colours never worked... not even in 1996. Well, perhaps in the 60s.

Thank you for telling me (us) what you think on this subject.
However I still think that it is mostly a matter of taste.
Hmmmm



The system which you described works well if you have a beginning and an
end, not for a website which tries to present something new the whole time.
I know how the website should look but since I started building the website
I added new things, for example
glasses and then I had to modify the contents, that may happen again, so
what you wrote may-be good generally speaking but not ( in my opinion) for
this website and if you want to update often the website.

I dont think any of that has an impact on the basic design processes.
You have to start somewhere, and HTML is *not* the place to start, no
matter how flexible your content will be. Look at newspapers fore
example; the layout of each page changes dramatically every day as does
the content. But the over-all look and feel remains consistant for that
newspaper for every single issue. Someone designed that, and stuck to
that design. It didn't happen by accident.

I agree. And I think it has a content.
You man not know much Italian, if you do you may like to read the page
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
for example.

I'm sure it says very interesting things, but sadly it hurts my eyes!


--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:


forget about australia we only have about 13 million on line. the vast
majority of the 934 million internet users use 56k dialup to access the
net. your pages are waaaaay too big.

How many?

How many in the EU? And how many with broadband?
It is important to know the local consumer laws, therefore I cannot afford
to
adress the website to consumers living all over the world at the moment...
just to the ones in the EU.
Also, not all the pages of the website have the same size.
Try http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html
for example. How long does it take for you to load that page?

you need to visit http://www.clickz.com/ and read all the articles about
what people like and dislike when they're trying to spend their money
online.

Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[Karl Core]

Ok.
If I wanted to get much more users visiting the website from Australia it
would be very important to reduce the size of the homepage.

Some studies show that 60% of people will abandon an online transaction if
the pages download slowly. This has been estimated to translate into $4
billion in lost e-commerce revenue each year.

"Users will wait about 10 seconds for a page to load, sometimes 15
seconds, before they lose interest" - Usability.gov
This makes it all the more important to do your part to limit the size of
the page and therefore trim down the load times. 60% of users use a 56kbps
connection speed or slower. Considering the fact that actual connection
speeds are slower than the modem's capability, total page weight should be
no more than about 30 KB.

http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/sept982.htm

http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/aug032.htm

http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/apr012.htm

 

[brucie]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:

How many in the EU? And how many with broadband?
It is important to know the local consumer laws,

i wasn't talking about consumer laws. i was talking about how people
connect to the net and your pages are waaaaaay too big for the majority
of users. at the moment if the size of them doesn't turn people off the
design will. really and truly, i'm not saying it to be nasty.

Also, not all the pages of the website have the same size.
Try http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html
for example. How long does it take for you to load that page?

ask someone on dialup

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:



i wasn't talking about consumer laws. i was talking about how people
connect to the net and your pages are waaaaaay too big for the majority
of users. at the moment if the size of them doesn't turn people off the
design will. really and truly, i'm not saying it to be nasty.

I mentioned the consumers laws only to say that I am interested to know how
consumers in the EU are connected and not outside the EU because I
cannot offer services or wares outside the EU at the moment.
And it seems as broadband is becoming more and more popular here in Sweden.
So, when we are talking about the majority, we have to talk about the
majority of users within EU and especially in Sweden.
What about the page http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/test1.html
anyway?

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

He's brucie, he's not fine. Here's why...

1) Too many pictures! Fills up even a big screen. Put words up there, have
pictures on another page.

2) Too many welcomes. I'm welcome already! Scrolled all the way through
all that. Either have a separate page for each language, or use a few less
languages.

Do you mean somethíng like
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/test1.html
and
a separate page for each language.
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/willkommen.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/en/welcome.html


http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/fr/bienvenue.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/dk/velkommen.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/es/bienvenidos.html

http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/benvenuti.html

3) There's really no "style" to the design. Looks like the label of a
medicine bottle. What do you want people to feel about your business?
Right now, I don't feel much based on the site.

Here's a page that makes me "feel" something. [http://www.timecube.com/]

I do not like this page!!!

It makes me feel the author is insane and desparate to bully me into
believing.

Here's another. [http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm] Calming, relaxing,
and a touch of elegance. (And a bit ignorant of accessibility too.)

It is only in one language and does not offer a large variety of products or
services, in my opinion.
How should I tell the users about all I offer otherwise?

The latter is much better but it is only in one language and presents only a
few items.

 

[brucie]

In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,alt.html Luigi Donatello
Asero said:

I mentioned the consumers laws only to say that I am interested to know how
consumers in the EU are connected and not outside the EU because I
cannot offer services or wares outside the EU at the moment.

put it this way. catering to dialup users and everyone's happy. catering
to broadband users and you've upset the dialup users.

What about the page http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/test1.html
anyway?

i'm over my bandwidth limit (again) so it just makes me cringe. i
stopped it before it fully downloaded. if i was on dialup i would have
left waaaay before it got close to fully downloading.

 

[Neal]

Do you mean somethíng like
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/test1.html
and
a separate page for each language.

Something like that, sure. But one thing - how does your user know the
language code is clickable? It's not very obvious.

Here's a page that makes me "feel" something. [http://www.timecube.com/]

I do not like this page!!!

Neither do I! But your page is, I'm afraid, a little too similar to it.

That page is an example of what NOT to do.

Here's another. [http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm] Calming, relaxing,
and a touch of elegance. (And a bit ignorant of accessibility too.)

It is only in one language and does not offer a large variety of
products or
services, in my opinion.
How should I tell the users about all I offer otherwise?

First, if you offer a lot of unrelated services, use a separate site for
each. If the services are really inter-related, then list them.

Check out http://www.vivabit.com/ - three distinct but related services
offered, very clearly described.

The point is, none of these designs are good for you. You need one that
fits your content. Look at sites which really look nice. How can you apply
it to your site?

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Something like that, sure. But one thing - how does your user know the
language code is clickable? It's not very obvious.

The links are underlined, aren´t they?
An other option would be this:

http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/test2.html

Here's another. [http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm] Calming, relaxing,
and a touch of elegance. (And a bit ignorant of accessibility too.)

It is only in one language and does not offer a large variety of
products or
services, in my opinion.
How should I tell the users about all I offer otherwise?

First, if you offer a lot of unrelated services, use a separate site for
each. If the services are really inter-related, then list them.

I offer as one-man business all the things which are on the websites,
they are inter-related this way
and to have one site for each thing would be more expensive, I think.

Check out http://www.vivabit.com/ - three distinct but related services
offered, very clearly described.

The point is, none of these designs are good for you. You need one that
fits your content. Look at sites which really look nice. How can you apply
it to your site?

I like the site which you mentioned above but as you say I need one that
fits my content.
I think that pictures are important for my website.

 

[Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen]

Title text can be a good idea, it will take time, though.

Just cut'n'paste the alt text,

Which images would you choose?

This is getting very detailed, but I'd suggest for
example:
Keep one of the necklaces, one of the bracelets,
either red cups or green cups, one glass flower
picture, the cat (I like it!), one of the wine
glass pictures, one ceremic dish, Elba.jpg,
sangregorio3.jpg, and "lille röda stugan",
hus02.jpg. That's 10, showing the scope of what
you have to offer. 52 is just too much for one
page. Spread them out on the other pages instead!

Statistics show that many visit that page so I would rather guess that many
users having high speed connection are just locked by these pictures.

Do you know if they stay on your site and visit
your other pages?

On the one hand a decreasing number having ADSL would probably visit a page
with just some pictures:
on the other hand an increasing number of users having low speed connection
would probably visit the home page with fewer pictures.

I have a modem here... But then again I'm maybe
not your average customer...

There are not many people who are familiar with intermediation for rent of
holidays lodgings.
The contact form is elaborate because the user needs get a lot of
information.

You could just add some space between the
fields/items, then it will be all right.

I share your opinion on this subject but that depends on that there are
always new articles coming.

OK!