Can you please give me some advice?

Discussion in 'Python' started by Bruno Desthuilliers, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. Byung-Hee HWANG a écrit :
    Not much - both are hi-level dynamic object oriented languages with some
    functional aspects - and quite a lot (their respective object models are
    totally different).

    Also, Python, being somewhat older, has perhaps a better implementation,
    more 3rd part librairies, and a greater (in size) community - but it
    also suffers from cruft accumulated thru the years and a documentation
    that's getting a bit messy (not that it's badly documented, but some
    features are not necessarily covered in the official tutorial...)
    The one that best fit your brain, I'd say - or the one that best fit
    your project.
    Not wrt/ learning English !-)
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Sep 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. a écrit :
    (snip)
    Hem.... Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python
    I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less
    "intuitive" than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail
    is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string'
    (implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct
    than what 'print' implies. When stdout is redirected to a socket that
    send bytes to a client program - like, say, a browser -, you're
    certainly not "printing" anything.

    Anyway, at this level, Python and Ruby are surprisingly close to each
    other.
    Here again, Ruby claims (or at least some rubyists do) that Ruby is as
    close as possible to "natural language". With examples like:

    5.times do {
    something
    and_something_else
    }

    which is arguably more "intuitive" than:

    for i in range(5):
    do_something()
    and_something_else()

    While perhaps smaller, the Ruby community is (AFAICT) known for being
    very active and helpful.
    On this last point at least, you're probably right !-)
    Indeed. Or even better, try both languages and find out which one he
    likes best. Implementation and 3rd part libs set aside, I could not say
    one is better than the other, so it's mostly a matter of personal taste
    and affinities.
    Would you say French is easy ? Because as far as I'm concerned, I find
    it the easiest language ever. Could it be because I'm french ?-)

    (snip)
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Sep 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. Hi there,

    What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language
    is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is
    really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
    study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to
    know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
    because it is just very painful..

    Can you please give me some advice?

    Byung-Hee
     
    Byung-Hee HWANG, Sep 30, 2007
    #3
  4. Bruno Desthuilliers

    morphine Guest

    What kind of advice do you expect on a NG called comp.lang.PYTHON ?
    Then stop learning it ;)

    ciao
     
    morphine, Sep 30, 2007
    #4

  5. Hello World in Ruby (and a few other languages):
    http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2005/12/hello_world.html

    More here:
    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Ruby_Creating_Ruby_programs

    Hello World in Python:
    http://python.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/helloworld.htm

    A Python tutorial:
    http://docs.python.org/tut/


    Sorry about the English.
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Sep 30, 2007
    #5
  6. ^^^^^^^^
    Your advice is the best.. really it hit my head very strongly..
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    You are bad.. I'm really pain..

    sorry for noise.. but I really wanted to say about the above matters..
     
    Byung-Hee HWANG, Sep 30, 2007
    #6
  7. snip...]
    That's alright. I am always struggling against English. It is not
    strange now. Thank you for your kindness.

    Byung-Hee
     
    Byung-Hee HWANG, Sep 30, 2007
    #7

  8. "Dive into Python" has been translated in Chinese:
    http://www.woodpecker.org.cn/diveintopython/

    Hope it helps,
    George
     
    George Sakkis, Sep 30, 2007
    #8
  9. Bruno Desthuilliers

    cmpython Guest

    I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
    program is

    puts 'Hello, World!'

    whereas the Python Hello World program is

    print 'Hello, World!'

    suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word "print"
    has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
    but "puts" just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python
    from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad
    in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like
    English
    as possible.

    I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing
    new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt
    the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and
    libraries
    and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on
    the
    fact that Python has been around longer).

    On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to
    freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other
    languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what
    they are saying.

    As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar
    is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and
    write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely
    impossible! Good luck!
     
    cmpython, Sep 30, 2007
    #9
  10. I read above your comments all. It will be good reason for my decision
    must be Python. Anyway, your guidance has been useful and is greatly
    appreciated. Okay, I will study English very hardly, as well. Thanks,
    again!

    Byung-Hee
     
    Byung-Hee HWANG, Sep 30, 2007
    #10
  11. Errhhh..... guys...... I think .kr means Korea.... so he would speak
    Korean, not Chinese
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_Ar=E1oz?=, Sep 30, 2007
    #11
  12. George Sakkis, Sep 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Sure, your next project should be learning COBOL -- it must be
    *very* intuitive.
    What are those advantages in respect to Python?

    Regards,


    Björn
     
    Bjoern Schliessmann, Oct 1, 2007
    #13
  14. Not all that much; Python is more mature, Ruby more fashionable.

    I am wondering what language
    www.python.or.kr/
    http://wiki.python.org/moin/KoreanPythonBooks


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Oct 1, 2007
    #14
  15. Thorsten Kampe a écrit :
    Your opinion.
    <MHO>
    It's not "printing". To me, "printing" implies a printer and a piece of
    paper (or other appropriate support). It's sending bytes to some kind of
    cs abstraction known as a "stream".
    </MHO>

    But anyway... This is certainly enough to prove that "intuitive" is a
    *very* subjective qualifier.
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Oct 2, 2007
    #15
  16. * Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200)
    You missed the point. "puts" for printing something to stdout is
    definitely a bad name for this operation. I mean "put string" (even
    abbreviated) what does that mean?

    On the other hand it does not mean that Python ist more intuitive than
    Ruby - only the printing to stdout is more intuitive.
     
    Thorsten Kampe, Oct 2, 2007
    #16
  17. Aye... To those of use that started with BASIC on an ASR33, "print"
    WAS "console output"... And even for those FORTRANs that included a
    utility "print" statement -- as we ran those off of Hollerith cards to a
    line printer.

    I never even encountered the concept of "streams" for another decade
    (Misosys LC on a TRS-80 Model III, about 1982); all my college and high
    school experience had been on line-oriented devices/languages. And even
    that archaic 2MHz Z-80 based system supported fixed-length direct access
    files in the OS -- one did not commonly have to do "seek" on files, one
    just asked for record "n". Heck -- the /editor/ on my college mainframe
    used ISAM "keyed" files for source code editing! (the keys being the
    line number in the editor, one often found a need to "renumber" the
    lines to get rid of the decimal parts)



    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG

    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
    (Bestiaria Support Staff: )
    HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
     
    Dennis Lee Bieber, Oct 3, 2007
    #17
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