OT: What is happening in Sydney?

  • Thread starter Luigi Donatello Asero
  • Start date
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

dorayme said:
It's more complicated than the affluence of the suburb, there is
quite a history to the gangs that have formed along the beach
suburbs, especially Maroubra (the Bra gang, local surfies and so
on) and gangs that come from all over Western Sydney to visit
the beaches. There are better roads and freeways now to bring
folk more easily to these beaches and these visitors have
behaved badly often enough to cause special resentment. Not
least resented, apparently, has been the unwillingness by the
state Govt to confront such behaviour because of "ethnic"
sensitivities. Anyway, it's a mess...

Has it been like that for a long time?
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
Are you from Sidney?

No, I'm from Sydney. ;-)
Of course it can be interesting for a cosmopolitan European to get a picture
from the whole country and not only about Sydney.

Of course. But the riots are in Sydney. AFAIK there aren't any in
Melbourne.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Mark Parnell said:
Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero


No, I'm from Sydney. ;-)


Of course. But the riots are in Sydney. AFAIK there aren't any in
Melbourne.

Still, it would be interesting to know whether the social background in
Melbourne is similar to the one in Sydney.
To put it in different terms, are you afraid that what happened in Sydney
could happen in Melbourne or has it happened in Melbourne or somewhere else
in Australia before?
Is Australia a federation of States?
How does Victoria deal with multiculturalism?
If there are any French people reading this post I would also like to hear
what
they think about what has happened in the the Down Under (Australia) and
whether they
could compare it to the riots in France.
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero
Still, it would be interesting to know whether the social background in
Melbourne is similar to the one in Sydney.

Australia as a whole is very multicultural. AFAIK Melbourne is much the
same as Sydney from that perspective - lots of different ethnic
backgrounds.
To put it in different terms, are you afraid that what happened in Sydney
could happen in Melbourne

It *could* happen anywhere, but I would hope it doesn't. I'm inclined to
think that this is an isolated incident. I doubt it will happen
elsewhere, except perhaps as a result of the current situation in
Sydney.
or has it happened in Melbourne or somewhere else
in Australia before?

Not to my knowledge. Not in recent times, anyway.
Is Australia a federation of States?
Yes.

How does Victoria deal with multiculturalism?

I don't know - much the same as the rest of the country, presumably.
 
D

Disco Octopus

Mark said:
Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Luigi Donatello Asero


Australia as a whole is very multicultural. AFAIK Melbourne is much the
same as Sydney from that perspective - lots of different ethnic
backgrounds.


It *could* happen anywhere, but I would hope it doesn't. I'm inclined to
think that this is an isolated incident. I doubt it will happen
elsewhere, except perhaps as a result of the current situation in
Sydney.

If I didnt know the situation, and saomeone said to me that this stuff
happenned in Australia, and not mention a city, I would immediately think
that it happenned in brisbane.
 
D

Disco Octopus

Luigi said:
How would you define the "average Australian", let´s say
the average Australian woman and the average Australian man?

That is the question that these dick heads in Cronulla where trying to
answer. The real answer is that there is no definition. That is the
essence of Australia. Australia is young enough to have the luxury of
defining its own culture.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Disco Octopus said:
If I didnt know the situation, and saomeone said to me that this stuff
happenned in Australia, and not mention a city, I would immediately think
that it happenned in brisbane.


Are there often riots there?
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Disco Octopus said:
That is the question that these dick heads in Cronulla where trying to
answer. The real answer is that there is no definition. That is the
essence of Australia. Australia is young enough to have the luxury of
defining its own culture.


Yes, but how do you define it in words?
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Luigi Donatello Asero said:
Yes, but how do you define it in words?

I mean, if you say that a certain behaviour is unaustralian, then you need
define what is australian!
 
M

mbstevens

I mean, if you say that a certain behaviour is unaustralian, then you need
define what is australian!

No, you just need to know that it is against _one_ of the qualities you
associate with being a thing. You don't need some _complete_ definition.

Let's say you are acquainted with a Mr. X. You know that he wears only
blue suits. You have seen him on the bus every day for years, always
only in blue suits, but that's about all you know about him. If you saw
him one day wearing a bright red suit, you could say that it is un-X
kind of thing to do. But that is very different from having a
definition of Mr. X.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

mbstevens said:
No, you just need to know that it is against _one_ of the qualities you
associate with being a thing. You don't need some _complete_ definition.

Let's say you are acquainted with a Mr. X. You know that he wears only
blue suits. You have seen him on the bus every day for years, always
only in blue suits, but that's about all you know about him. If you saw
him one day wearing a bright red suit, you could say that it is un-X
kind of thing to do. But that is very different from having a
definition of Mr. X.

But you still define Mr. X with reference to the colour of his suit.
In your example you assume that Mr. X usually has blue suits and that it
what the positive definition is about.
 
D

Disco Octopus

Luigi said:
Are there often riots there?

No. No riots anywhere (usually) is Australia at all. The reason I say
brisbane, is *I find* that the locals are quite ignorant towards anything
that is not queensland. Some quite to the point of backwards thinking. I
have been living here for 3 years, and it is actually getting better as
more "outsiders" move in. However, it is not uncommon to hear some
derogatory remark to some "other" race, religion, sexual preferance, etc.
The interesting thing is, that these remarks are not slewn around as being
derogatory. They are in fact just common chit chat. Queensland has the
most race related organisations in the country.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Luigi Donatello Asero said:
But you still define Mr. X with reference to the colour of his suit.
In your example you assume that Mr. X usually has blue suits and that it
what the positive definition is about.

But you still define Mr. X with reference to the colour of his suit.
In your example you assume that Mr. X usually has blue suits and that
what the positive definition is about.
 
M

mbstevens

Luigi said:
But you still define Mr. X with reference to the colour of his suit.
In your example you assume that Mr. X usually has blue suits and that it
what the positive definition is about.

This "positive" definition is likely a kind of weird Semiotic technical
term for what a definition is. You can't expect the rest of us to buy
into anything like that. It all dates back to the structuralist
"signifier/signified" - world-made-of-language claptrap.

The only thing I actually have a _full_ definition for is sentential and
predicate logic, and similar formal systems.

I don't believe that some truck that's about to run over me will
disappear if I don't have a definition for it. That would simply be
unreasonable. No, I prefer to step out of the way of the truck.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

mbstevens said:
This "positive" definition is likely a kind of weird Semiotic technical
term for what a definition is. You can't expect the rest of us to buy
into anything like that. It all dates back to the structuralist
"signifier/signified" - world-made-of-language claptrap.

Expect? Not at all...
You may think what you want..
but for me you cannot have a negative definition without having the
corresponding positive defínitions...
 
D

Disco Octopus

Luigi said:
I mean, if you say that a certain behaviour is unaustralian, then you need
define what is australian!


We are the people of a free nation of blokes, sheilas and the occasional
wanker. We come from many lands (although a few too many of us come from
New Zealand), and although we live in the best country in the world, we
reserve the right to bitch and moan about it whenever we bloody like. We
are One Nation but divided into many States.
First, there's Victoria, named after a queen who didn't believe in
lesbians. Victoria is the realm of Mossimo turtlenecks, cafe latte, grand
final day, and big horse races. Its capital is Melbourne, whose chief
marketing pitch is that it's liveable. At least that's what they think. The
rest of us think it is too bloody cold and wet.
Next, there's NSW, the realm of pastel shorts, macchiato with sugar, thin
books read quickly and millions of dancing queens. Its capital Sydney has
more queens than any other city in the world and is proud of it. Its
mascots are Bondi lifesavers that pull their Speedos up their cracks to
keep the left and right sides of their brains separate.
Down south we have Tasmania, a State based on the notion that the family
that bonks together stays together. In Tassie, everyone gets an extra
chromosome at conception. Maps of the State bring smiles to the sternest
faces. It holds the world record for a single mass shooting, which the
Yanks can't seem to beat no matter how often they try.
South Australia is the province of half-decent reds, a festival of
foreigners and bizarre axe murders. SA is the state of innovation. Where
else can you so effectively reuse country bank vaults and barrels as in
Snowtown, just out of Adelaide (also named after a queen). They had the
Grand Prix, but lost it when the views of Adelaide sent the Formula One
drivers to sleep at the wheel.
Western Australia is too far from anywhere to be relevant. It's main claim
to fame is that it doesn't have daylight saving because if it did, all the
men would get erections on the bus on the way to work. WA was the last
state to stop importing convicts and many of them still work there in the
government and business.
The Northern Territory is the red heart of our land. Outback plains, sheep
stations the size of Europe, kangaroos, Jackaroos, emus, Uluru, and dusty
kids with big smiles. It also has the highest beer consumption of anywhere
on the planet and its creek beds have the highest aluminium content of
anywhere too. Although the Territory is the centrepiece of our national
culture, few of us live there and the rest prefer to flyover it on our way
to Bali.
And there's Queensland. While any mention of god seems silly in a document
defining a nation of half arsed sceptics, it is worth noting that god
probably made Queensland, as its beautiful one day and perfect the next.
Why he filled it with dickheads remains a mystery.
Oh yes and there's Canberra. The less said the better.
We, the citizens of Oz, are united by Highways, whose treacherous twists
and turns kill more of us each year than murderers. We are united in our
lust for international recognition, so desperate for praise we leap in joy
when a rag tag gaggle of corrupt IOC officials tells us Sydney is better
than Beijing. We are united by a democracy so flawed that a political party
albeit a redneck gun toting one, can get a million votes and still not win
one seat in Federal Parliament. Not that we're whingeing, we leave that to
our Pommy immigrants...
We want to make no worries mate our national phrase, she'll be right mate
our national attitude and Waltzing Matilda our national anthem (so what if
it's about a sheep-stealing crim who commits suicide). We love sport so
much our newsreaders can read the death toll from a sailing race and still
tell us who's winning.
And we're the best in the world at all the sports that count, like cricket,
netball, rugby league and union, AFL, roo shooting, two up and horse
racing.
We also have the biggest rock, the tastiest pies, and the worst dressed
Olympians in the known universe. Only in Australia can a pizza delivery get
to your house faster than an ambulance. Only in Australia do we have bank
doors wide open, no security guards, or cameras but chain the pens to the
desk.
Stand proud Aussies - we shoot, we root, we vote. We are girt by sea and
pissed by lunchtime. Even though we might seem a racist, closed minded,
sports obsessed little people, at least we feel better for it.
I am, you are, we are Australian!
We also shoot and eat the two animals that are on our national coat of
arms. No other country has this distinction
 
M

mbstevens

Luigi said:
Expect? Not at all...
You may think what you want..
but for me

That "for me" has no weight here.
you cannot have a negative definition

It was never a negative _definition_ at all! Just an observation
about a quality.
without having the
corresponding positive defínitions...

Then you are using 'definition' in a non-standard way.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

mbstevens said:
That "for me" has no weight here.

As I wrote you may think what you want.
It was never a negative _definition_ at all! Just an observation
about a quality.

Negative as absence of a certain item or quality, for example a suit which
is neither blue nor yellow
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Disco Octopus said:
We are the people of a free nation of blokes, sheilas and the occasional
wanker. We come from many lands (although a few too many of us come from
New Zealand), and although we live in the best country in the world, we
reserve the right to bitch and moan about it whenever we bloody like. We
are One Nation but divided into many States.
First, there's Victoria, named after a queen who didn't believe in
lesbians. Victoria is the realm of Mossimo turtlenecks, cafe latte, grand
final day, and big horse races. Its capital is Melbourne, whose chief
marketing pitch is that it's liveable. At least that's what they think. The
rest of us think it is too bloody cold and wet.
Next, there's NSW, the realm of pastel shorts, macchiato with sugar, thin
books read quickly and millions of dancing queens. Its capital Sydney has
more queens than any other city in the world and is proud of it. Its
mascots are Bondi lifesavers that pull their Speedos up their cracks to
keep the left and right sides of their brains separate.
Down south we have Tasmania, a State based on the notion that the family
that bonks together stays together. In Tassie, everyone gets an extra
chromosome at conception. Maps of the State bring smiles to the sternest
faces. It holds the world record for a single mass shooting, which the
Yanks can't seem to beat no matter how often they try.
South Australia is the province of half-decent reds, a festival of
foreigners and bizarre axe murders. SA is the state of innovation. Where
else can you so effectively reuse country bank vaults and barrels as in
Snowtown, just out of Adelaide (also named after a queen). They had the
Grand Prix, but lost it when the views of Adelaide sent the Formula One
drivers to sleep at the wheel.
Western Australia is too far from anywhere to be relevant. It's main claim
to fame is that it doesn't have daylight saving because if it did, all the
men would get erections on the bus on the way to work. WA was the last
state to stop importing convicts and many of them still work there in the
government and business.
The Northern Territory is the red heart of our land. Outback plains, sheep
stations the size of Europe, kangaroos, Jackaroos, emus, Uluru, and dusty
kids with big smiles. It also has the highest beer consumption of anywhere
on the planet and its creek beds have the highest aluminium content of
anywhere too. Although the Territory is the centrepiece of our national
culture, few of us live there and the rest prefer to flyover it on our way
to Bali.
And there's Queensland. While any mention of god seems silly in a document
defining a nation of half arsed sceptics, it is worth noting that god
probably made Queensland, as its beautiful one day and perfect the next.
Why he filled it with dickheads remains a mystery.
Oh yes and there's Canberra. The less said the better.
We, the citizens of Oz, are united by Highways, whose treacherous twists
and turns kill more of us each year than murderers. We are united in our
lust for international recognition, so desperate for praise we leap in joy
when a rag tag gaggle of corrupt IOC officials tells us Sydney is better
than Beijing. We are united by a democracy so flawed that a political party
albeit a redneck gun toting one, can get a million votes and still not win
one seat in Federal Parliament. Not that we're whingeing, we leave that to
our Pommy immigrants...
We want to make no worries mate our national phrase, she'll be right mate
our national attitude and Waltzing Matilda our national anthem (so what if
it's about a sheep-stealing crim who commits suicide). We love sport so
much our newsreaders can read the death toll from a sailing race and still
tell us who's winning.
And we're the best in the world at all the sports that count, like cricket,
netball, rugby league and union, AFL, roo shooting, two up and horse
racing.
We also have the biggest rock, the tastiest pies, and the worst dressed
Olympians in the known universe. Only in Australia can a pizza delivery get
to your house faster than an ambulance. Only in Australia do we have bank
doors wide open, no security guards, or cameras but chain the pens to the
desk.
Stand proud Aussies - we shoot, we root, we vote. We are girt by sea and
pissed by lunchtime. Even though we might seem a racist, closed minded,
sports obsessed little people, at least we feel better for it.
I am, you are, we are Australian!
We also shoot and eat the two animals that are on our national coat of
arms. No other country has this distinction


Interesting.
Perhaps I can ask some questions on what you wrote another time.
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Disco Octopus
<[email protected]> spouted in alt.html:

<snip definition of "Australian">

Well summarised. :)
We also shoot and eat the two animals that are on our national coat of
arms. No other country has this distinction

Yep, I had kangaroo for lunch on Sunday. :)
 

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