Understanding some Java basics

K

kimiraikkonen

Hi experts,
I'm a bit familiar to Java and i want to begin programming under Java
with a good beginner's resource but there are some confusions in my
mind:

1-I know Java applications cannot be run as an executable file, there
must be a interpreter needed, what's the most convenient way to run
and show my projects under computer enviroment? Applet-like class
files inside browsers or mobile emulators? Or JAR archives?

2-I want to learn basics for developing applications for mobile
phones(like modern Nokia phones) and i learnt that there are some
concepts like MIDP, MIDLETs, J2ME (micro edition) and like that. What
concept is the complete and the most convenient standard for beginning
development for mobile phones?

3-.Which IDE is the most easy-to-understand? I heard about Netbeans
with no experience, also i'm familiar to Microsoft's Visual Studio
but don't know if there's VS-like IDEs for Java which also supports
development for mobile area.

4-I have the latest Java run-time installed(Java Standard Edition from
www.java.com), then i need to download Java Development Kit (JDK) to
start programming under JAVA. Right?

As Final:

5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low-
level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++
syntaxes into Java programming enviroment?


I needed to consult to your big experiences to have a good start with
Java :) If you help me to understand and recommend the goods, i'd
appreciate.

Regards...
 
J

Jeff Higgins

kimiraikkonen wrote
Hi experts,
I'm a bit familiar to Java and i want to begin programming under Java
with a good beginner's resource but there are some confusions in my
mind:

1-I know Java applications cannot be run as an executable file, there
must be a interpreter needed, what's the most convenient way to run
and show my projects under computer enviroment? Applet-like class
files inside browsers or mobile emulators? Or JAR archives?

<http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/deployment/index.html>
2-I want to learn basics for developing applications for mobile
phones(like modern Nokia phones) and i learnt that there are some
concepts like MIDP, MIDLETs, J2ME (micro edition) and like that. What
concept is the complete and the most convenient standard for beginning
development for mobile phones?

3-.Which IDE is the most easy-to-understand? I heard about Netbeans
with no experience, also i'm familiar to Microsoft's Visual Studio
but don't know if there's VS-like IDEs for Java which also supports
development for mobile area.
 
R

Roedy Green

1-I know Java applications cannot be run as an executable file, there
must be a interpreter needed, what's the most convenient way to run
and show my projects under computer enviroment? Applet-like class
files inside browsers or mobile emulators? Or JAR archives?

You can run java as exe. See
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/nativecompiler.html

To run inside browsers you create Applets.

The two most common ways to run Java are with Hotspot using java.exe
or under the control of Java Webstart javaws.exe .

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/javaexe.html
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/javawebstart.html
 
R

Roedy Green

2-I want to learn basics for developing applications for mobile
phones(like modern Nokia phones) and i learnt that there are some
concepts like MIDP, MIDLETs, J2ME (micro edition) and like that. What
concept is the complete and the most convenient standard for beginning
development for mobile phones?

As a beginner, I would put this on hold temporarily. You will get more
help and find more books on standard Java. Basically the Java's you
use in phones are stripped down Java's, so you have to write more code
yourself that comes built-in.. Also the memory and speed constraints
are tighter. So you need more skill.

see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/cellphone.html
 
R

Roedy Green

3-.Which IDE is the most easy-to-understand? I heard about Netbeans
with no experience, also i'm familiar to Microsoft's Visual Studio
but don't know if there's VS-like IDEs for Java which also supports
development for mobile area.

This is like saying which person would make the best life partner. It
depends on your taste. You can try them out free and see which one
feels best.

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html
 
R

Roedy Green

5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low-
level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++
syntaxes into Java programming enviroment?

Learning Java is much like learning a foreign language. The sooner you
start learning to think in the language, rather than think in your
native language (C++) and translating, the better command of the
language you develop. This is even truer of Java than most other
computer languages because Java is so strongly idiomatic. There are
canned ways of doing almost everything. You build very little from
scratch from the primitive elements.

Java superficially looks a lot like C++, but nearly all my trouble
learning Java came from presuming it should work the same as C++ or
should have buried somewhere some feature I used in C++. It works
quite differently inside and has a completely different design
philosophy. The rule of thumb is, don't presume Java works the same as
C++ just because the syntax looks the same. Java is a bit like an
angler fish that dangles a C++ syntax lure to seduce C++ programmers
into trying Java (for their own good, of course).

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/cpp.html
 
R

Roedy Green

I needed to consult to your big experiences to have a good start with
Java :) If you help me to understand and recommend the goods, i'd
appreciate.

Your way of expressing is unusual. What is your native tongue?
I am fascinated by accents and dialects and the ways people learning
English modify its syntax. Is there a recording of you, or someone
from your country speaking anywhere on the net?

This interest was sparked by The Book Of Knowledge I read as a child
that showed, French, English and literal word-for-word translations.
 
W

Wildemar Wildenburger

Roedy said:
Your way of expressing is unusual. What is your native tongue?
I am fascinated by accents and dialects and the ways people learning
English modify its syntax. Is there a recording of you, or someone
from your country speaking anywhere on the net?

This interest was sparked by The Book Of Knowledge I read as a child
that showed, French, English and literal word-for-word translations.

If I make take a wild guess (just for fun): The alias "kimiraikkonen"
suggest a finnish origin. Right?

/W
 
R

Roedy Green

Also it would be nice to share your own words instead of pasting links.

Links are better:

1. the information pointed to can be updated. Inline words including
the errors are frozen for all time.

2. Much of this material has been post many times before. A link
saves those who have seen it before.

3. the material pointed two has the advantage of HTML formatting,
tables, alignment, colours etc to make the point more clearly.

4. people usually spend more time polishing web material than one-off
posts.

5. It will often answer related questions as a matter of course.

6. You can point to material other than your own personal
compositions.

7. it is pre-indexed by Google. You can often find what you want
without even having to post a question.

8. links are more likely to contain correct information since others
have already had a chance to read it and send in corrections.


inline is better:

1. responses can be specific to the questioner's example problem.

2. people are more likely to read it than follow a link. It amazing
how frequently a newbie will ask re-ask a question already clearly
answered in the links given him. Perhaps newbies are manually
retyping links into browsers. I don't understand the source of the
reluctance to follow links. It is just a mouseclick away.
 
K

kimiraikkonen

Your way of expressing is unusual. What is your native tongue?
I am fascinated by accents and dialects and the ways people learning
English modify its syntax. Is there a recording of you, or someone
from your country speaking anywhere on the net?

This interest was sparked by The Book Of Knowledge I read as a child
that showed, French, English and literal word-for-word translations.

Hi,First off thanks for replying my questions then i am not Finnish
and my native language is not English but i'm trying to speak as
fluent as natives even some of natives do not speak fluently really.

But i didn't understand the way you critised me if it is a praise or
negative criticism. :)

Thanks.
 
J

Joshua Cranmer

kimiraikkonen said:
> 5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low-
level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++
syntaxes into Java programming enviroment?

The syntax is similar to C++, but the underlying ideas and functionality
is completely different:

1. Java methods are virtual except in certain circumstances; C++ methods
are nonvirtual by default.
2. Every access of `Object x' in Java is roughly equivalent to `Object*
x' in C++.
3. Java is much more strictly-typed than C++.
4. Java is very specific when it comes to how expressions evaluate;
C/C++ are extremely loose (e.g., `x++' only guarantees incrementing by
the end of the statement in C++, immediately thereafter in Java).
5. A `char' in Java is a 16-bit unsigned integer equivalent to a UTF-16
value; the C/C++ `signed char' is a `byte' in Java. The values of other
types are very well-defined in Java.
6. Generics are only (as of Java 6) compile-time syntax for increased
compile-time static verification in Java; C++ templates are manually
redefined for every type and persist to runtime.

Others that I can't think of off the top of my head.
 
L

Lew

kimiraikkonen said:
Hi,First off thanks for replying my questions then i am not Finnish
and my native language is not English but i'm trying to speak as
fluent as natives even some of natives do not speak fluently really.

But i didn't understand the way you critised me if it is a praise or
negative criticism. :)

There is no way that Roedy is criticizing you. That would be the opposite of
his nature. He was asking out of ambassadorial curiosity. He's a person very
interested in who people are, and what their cultures and idioms are. He is
very respectful of everyone's culture and is the last person who would
criticize you for your English, nor any beautiful custom or tradition of your
part of the world.
 
A

Andrew Thompson

Also it would be nice to share your own words instead of pasting links.

It would be nice of *you* to trim text no longer immediately
relevant to your reply. And since you seem ignorant of the
value of Jeff posting links, I will explain. ..

Jeff's links are a way of attaching a great deal of data to
a very short bandwidth (and sparing all the members of this
group who have heard such inane questions a thousand times).
In fact, the very fact he can lay his browser on so many
directly useful links also hints at an underlying truth,
which I interpret as *Use a frigging search engine you
pathetic, useless, whining, /mongrel/, bastard.*

Of course, Jeff chose not to express, and was probably not
even thinking of, it that way. (shrugs vaguely) Credit to him.
 
A

Andrew Thompson

Roedy said:
...I don't understand the source of the
reluctance to follow links.

Neither do I. And I wish I did understand it.

I can, to a certain extent, understand it of people who might
be *answering* a question, and as a result of not following
somebody *elses* link to the entire explanation, would prefer
to put the benefit of their experience, in words of their own
choosing (perhaps quite redundantly to the info. contained in
a link posted earlier, that they did not follow).

'off-line readers' perhaps? Hardly relevant to a GG poster, who
is asking a question, is it?

Note to the OP: Google is your friend. (We are not.)

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.physci.org/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200712/1
 
G

Gordon Beaton

Neither do I. And I wish I did understand it.

I rarely follow links in posts because it means that I have to change
context (and tools).

My reaction to replies consisting only of links is "boring", unless
the post contains some material that's interesting on its own and only
refers to the link for more information, more depth, etc.

Further, I disagree with many of Roedy's arguments for linking, they
are obviously a reflection of his own posting preference.

/gordon

--
 
G

Gordon Beaton

Links are better:

1. the information pointed to can be updated. Inline words including
the errors are frozen for all time.

Relatively few personal websites remain up for "for all time" let
alone "for 5 years".

On the other hand the information in an inline post is really an audit
trail of what was said, and by whom. Nobody can go back and pretend
that they said something different. Errors get corrected in followups.
2. Much of this material has been post many times before. A link
saves those who have seen it before.

This contradicts number 1, where you claimed that it was an advantage
that the text can be modified.

Also you can't tell if you've seen it before unless you somehow
remember every link you've visited.
3. the material pointed two has the advantage of HTML formatting,
tables, alignment, colours etc to make the point more clearly.

Or disadvantage if the author has no concept of usability, layout, or
requires Java/Javascript/Flash/WTF to see the code examples which just
as easily could have been plain text. This most certainly doesn't help
those with accessibility problems.
5. It will often answer related questions as a matter of course.

And just as often result in non-sequitors being presented as answers.
6. You can point to material other than your own personal
compositions.

As you can when you reply "inline", with links.
7. it is pre-indexed by Google. You can often find what you want
without even having to post a question.

Usenet is also archived and searchable. Many posters don't even
understand that "Google groups" is not part of the web.
8. links are more likely to contain correct information since others
have already had a chance to read it and send in corrections.

Both websites and Usenet posts often contain errors, or confuse
"opinion" with "fact". However on Usenet, such posts are contested
publically.

Websites can (and do) display the same errors year after year,
regardless of how much email the author receives. This is exacerbated
by websites purporting to be authoritative.
inline is better:

1. responses can be specific to the questioner's example problem.

2. people are more likely to read it than follow a link. It amazing
how frequently a newbie will ask re-ask a question already clearly
answered in the links given him. Perhaps newbies are manually
retyping links into browsers. I don't understand the source of the
reluctance to follow links. It is just a mouseclick away.

3. it's easier to follow the discussion or to post properly quoted and
attributed followups when the text is in the post itself, instead
of split across forums.

4. no single poster gets to moderate his "own" discussions, or spin
the material to suit his own purposes.

/gordon

--
 
K

kimiraikkonen

It would be nice of *you* to trim text no longer immediately
relevant to your reply. And since you seem ignorant of the
value of Jeff posting links, I will explain. ..

I don't think i used wrong words, however i don't think i'm
"ignorant"(that's a long issue, no need to extend), please don't guess
if you're not sure when you use an adjective for a person. My aim was
to find answers in my mind abot some Java basics, i tried to ask them
as polite as a standard post, but maybe this way of asking would be
opposite of newsgroup's nature. As long as there weren't rough words
by OP, there shouln't be an arguement enviroment to talk out of topic.
(and there's nothing entrely as rough)
Jeff's links are a way of attaching a great deal of data to
a very short bandwidth (and sparing all the members of this
group who have heard such inane questions a thousand times).
In fact, the very fact he can lay his browser on so many
directly useful links also hints at an underlying truth,
which I interpret as *Use a frigging search engine you
pathetic, useless, whining, /mongrel/, bastard.*

You are entirely incorrect. I agree, the links are extremely helpful,
i know, but there are thousands of links and it's hard to find a well-
categorized one, however i just wanted to hear about Java-related
basics from poster which were not too specific. Although there wasn't
any problem and the techical explanations were good, i couldn't
understand why you extended the topic after the latest message was
sent 1-2 days ago.
Of course, Jeff chose not to express, and was probably not
even thinking of, it that way. (shrugs vaguely) Credit to him.

IMHO, I don't suppose. It's not a proper thing to express thoughts
which are another person's.
 

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