Good Sites - who's got some examples?

[Zak McGregor]

I found all of the information that I needed on their web site. You just
made a decision that denied you access to the info.

No, *they* made a decision that denied me access to their info.

Ciao

Zak

 

[Zak McGregor]

Please explain how using design to entice people to buy or use your site
is a bad idea? Because you may loose someone? You can gain much more
than you loose depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Exactly. Just our difference stems from the fact that you believe
(erroneously) that using Flash entices people to use the site. It is
certain that by making your information available to 100% of the
potential audience is far better than 60%, 70%, 80% or even 90%.

And please tell me why Flash is such a bad thing? I personally think it
is a great thing, and so do millions of others.

Well, did you grok the importance of standards-compliance? I'd guess not.
Flash is a proprieatry format, controlled by one company. Embracing it at
the expense of an open standard is simply daft. For terribly obvious
reasons.

Telling people they have to use flash to use a site is perfectly correct
in some cases. If a company feels that they will receive more sales if
they present their product using flash, then they have a right to do it.

Still doesn't make the decision *right*. Sure, they have a right to deny
sales to Hispanics, Jews, Catholics or Muslims. Still doesn't make it
correct or even wise.

And in many cases, if you DON'T use Flash, you will loose sales (please
visit virtually any site catering to the 15 and under audience) The web
is being used for more than information. It is being used for
entertainment. Text is not entertaining to everyone you know.

The web is not TV. It surpasses everything before it. It is exceptionally
useful to those who know how to use it, and that is due to its very
fundamental properties - like that of client independence.

Why? If you think it is wrong, then don't come to my site. Oh no, I
lost your sale...
Yup.


So what. I disagree with him, as do millions and millions of others.

You know what? Being a populist view still does not make it correct.

Fact is, he made it happen. What have you done?

Ciao

Zak

 

[Zak McGregor]

He gets to suggest what he would like the web to be.

He has no powers of enforcement to see that anyone does a web site
according to what he wants.

Absolutely. It is his vision that has enabled the whole phenomenon. You
can do better eh?

Ciao

Zak

 

[Zak McGregor]

I am an auto enthusiast and I have never used your web site.

No worries.

I really like the Subaru web site design and was able to find out
everything that I needed to know.

I'm pleased for you. However it is certain that that hasn't been
everyone's experience of that site. Had it been simple html however, it
would have been.

Thanks to their info, I am ready to go buy one of their cars.

Knock yourself out. Make sure it's one of their fabulous flat fours
though, or forever live with regrets.

They are interested in selling cars. Not making your data gathering job
easier. I let the dealer sales guys know that I found the info that I
needed on their web site and decided to stop by and check out their
cars.

Unfortunately for them, my data gathering process is little different to
everyone planning to buy a new car and considering a Subaru. To start off
with less than 100% of possible customers is really stupid, is it not?

Ciao

Zak

 

[Kris]

Funny, that would be exactly the motivation for disabling
Javascipt........

I found all of the information that I needed on their web site.
You just made a decision that denied you access to the info.[/QUOTE]

Still, isn't it at least a little bit stupid that one needs a scipting
language enabled to get plain info? Sounds to me like the author didn't
know what he was doing or really didn't care much.

 

[Barefoot Kid]

If you truly believe this, then I would never want you near
a web site that I am involved with. Design is a critical
element for most people who want a site built and this is
expressed in the basic request to "Design me a web site."

Most people have the design aspect as one of the most
important things they consider when requesting that a
site be built.

i agree, they dont call it web DESIGN for nothing...

 

[Mark Jones]

No, *they* made a decision that denied me access to their info.

Do you own a browser with JavaScript capability?

If you do, it is you who made the decision to turn this off.

 

[Mark Jones]

Absolutely. It is his vision that has enabled the whole phenomenon. You
can do better eh?

I can use as much or as little of what he and others have
made available as web technologies. I am not restricted
to only those things that TBL likes.

 

[Mark Jones]

To start off
with less than 100% of possible customers is really stupid, is it not?

No. Their existing web design was sufficient to get me into their
showroom to look at their most expensive vehicle.

 

[Toby A Inkster]

Do you own a browser with JavaScript capability?

If you do, it is you who made the decision to turn this off.

There are a good deal of, say, corporate users who have JavaScript turned
off as a matter of site policy and are unable to switch it on.

Consider the HR manager surfing the Internet and looking to buy a fleet of
company cars...

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Nicolai P. Zwar wrote:




Godwin's Law for the 21st century?

We're working on it. Someone's gotta fill in the position, and the
Taliban sure have the size to fit.

 

[Mark Jones]

There are a good deal of, say, corporate users who have JavaScript turned
off as a matter of site policy and are unable to switch it on.

Consider the HR manager surfing the Internet and looking to buy a fleet of
company cars...

The company that I used to work for did this several times and
it certainly wasn't the HR manager who did any of the buying.

Nobody that I know works at a company where JavaScript is
turned off. The fact is that all of these companies have sites
that use JavaScript so of course all of their users have JS
turned on.

 

[Whitecrest]

http://kisrael.com/features/gb.html

Yea that will keep them coming....

 

[Whitecrest]

I'm pleased for you. However it is certain that that hasn't been
everyone's experience of that site. Had it been simple html however, it
would have been.

Or they would have lost his sale because he was bored with the site. It
goes both ways.

Unfortunately for them, my data gathering process is little different to
everyone planning to buy a new car and considering a Subaru. To start off
with less than 100% of possible customers is really stupid, is it not?

For Mom and Pop, yea, it is imperative that everyone be able to see them
For subaru, not as important.

 

[Whitecrest]

No, *they* made a decision that denied me access to their info.

And they have the right to do so.

 

[Whitecrest]

Consider the HR manager surfing the Internet and looking to buy a fleet of
company cars...

If they have the HR manager surfing to buy cars, then the company is in
trouble to start with.

 

[kchayka]

You can't present content in a text-only accessible format.

Which includes the user being able to adjust the text size as needed to
make that content readable. This is a serious deficiency of Flash.

 

[Whitecrest]

You can't have full text indexing with semantic weighting of phrases for
instance...

You can't be standards-compliant....

You can't present content in
a text-only accessible format. Need more?

Silly boy, I can do all of those things and more. You really don't know
what flash can and can not do, do you?

 

[Whitecrest]

For the record, I have no problem with games implemented in Flash. I *do*
have major problems with information presented in Flash though, since
html is infintesimally better suited to that job.

Better suited, is an opinion. To me, it is not better suited. If it
were not an opinion, then we would both be agreeing with everything.

However, when the
task at hand is dissemination of information, there can be no question
that html is better suited to that.

I agree if you are talking about plain old text information. And I have
never said anything different.

 

[Whitecrest]

No, the web didn't grow up. A whole flock of web designers who think
their job is more about the design than the web embraced a format that is
wholly inadequate and the company distributing said software naturally
presented its humble offering as a replacement for standard accessible
html.

Which says, the web grew up.

The dangers posed need no elaboration - the very reasons the web
work are under threat here.

My using a proprietary tool (albeit on 90% of the computers) for
presentation will not cause the web to stop working. The web is not
going away, and it is becoming more and more interactive as broadband
grows. Hop on, or get off, your choice.