D
dorayme
Teppo Tulppu said:
The 3.97 is their lowest pack, you get only about 10MB of space.
Perhaps you get more things for the greater amount in your deal.
The 3.97 is their lowest pack, you get only about 10MB of space.
Perhaps you get more things for the greater amount in your deal.
D
dorayme
"Andy Dingley said:
Mine with "Communications"...
D
dorayme
John Hosking said:
Looks like old mb was onto something! I am rather fond of making
_wheat_ beers these days. Get yeasts from German beers going and
using them... they rarely can kill off all the yeast, which lets
in sneaky theft... Ales, light grain. Brew in winter, boutique
amounts really (considering this is Australia!), not much of a
drinker myself, have moved to the Belgian smaller 330 ml bottles,
even the standard Oz 380 is a wee too much at a sitting for me on
some days. No sugar, all grain and flowers, I even sometimes
lager the stuff for a while. Gra, Farmer Joe, might be doing this
sort of thing too?
J
Joe (GKF)
Never tried brewing my own beer. I've made my own Chateau la feet on
occasion, and then there is this:
http://graspages.cjb.cc/recipe06/cots/recipe.htm#wine
N
natashab
thank you for your total lack of support, in fact I find your replies
totally demeaning to the fact that I have created a sight with no html
knowledge, with no internet server, hosting etc experience what so
ever. I gave something a shot that I had an interest in.
You all obviously have a far greater knowledge than myself but to put
me down and my attempts, I find is disgusting in the first degree.
Yes I used freewebs, and redirected the domain name to it. This was
done for a specific reason. To get the site live without it costing
anything, without having to go to the expense of paying a hosting
company. It was a gift to the dance tutor.
Yes it probably is well out of 1995. How else is one meant to learn
without trial and error.
The coding change I talked about has nothing what so ever to do with
the frames and everything to do I believe with having sent the html
index file to friends to look at and then them sending it back to me
edited.
I joined this group thinking I would gain an understanding to the
development on web design and learn more about coding.
The course I am on has again nothing to do with how I have coded the
site as I haven't even advanced to that point of correctly learning
HTML or even CSS!!!! So please do not be so down on my work or my
choice of education.
Unlike most of you that are most likely far enough qualified in this
field I am but a mere beginner, I didn't expect this kind of a slagging
down.
Oh and thanks to http://www.xs4all.nl/~waaij99/ for using the enquiry
form but for not actually bothering to fill it out properly. It would
have been nice to have actually received a comment or something rather
than use up one of the free queries just because you felt like clicking
to see what happens and to see how I had set this part of the site up.
You rudeness in totally thread jacking my thread to discuss many other
topics other than my introduction or to give me proper words of advice
on how to correct my errors and put me on the right path totally
astounds me!!!
Now you may all be just as rude back but I feel I am just in sounding
off in this manner because this wasn't the welcome I expected what so
ever!!!!
Or do none of you have proper manner and are really as crass as I have
been led to believe about most Americans!!!!
totally demeaning to the fact that I have created a sight with no html
knowledge, with no internet server, hosting etc experience what so
ever. I gave something a shot that I had an interest in.
You all obviously have a far greater knowledge than myself but to put
me down and my attempts, I find is disgusting in the first degree.
Yes I used freewebs, and redirected the domain name to it. This was
done for a specific reason. To get the site live without it costing
anything, without having to go to the expense of paying a hosting
company. It was a gift to the dance tutor.
Yes it probably is well out of 1995. How else is one meant to learn
without trial and error.
The coding change I talked about has nothing what so ever to do with
the frames and everything to do I believe with having sent the html
index file to friends to look at and then them sending it back to me
edited.
I joined this group thinking I would gain an understanding to the
development on web design and learn more about coding.
The course I am on has again nothing to do with how I have coded the
site as I haven't even advanced to that point of correctly learning
HTML or even CSS!!!! So please do not be so down on my work or my
choice of education.
Unlike most of you that are most likely far enough qualified in this
field I am but a mere beginner, I didn't expect this kind of a slagging
down.
Oh and thanks to http://www.xs4all.nl/~waaij99/ for using the enquiry
form but for not actually bothering to fill it out properly. It would
have been nice to have actually received a comment or something rather
than use up one of the free queries just because you felt like clicking
to see what happens and to see how I had set this part of the site up.
You rudeness in totally thread jacking my thread to discuss many other
topics other than my introduction or to give me proper words of advice
on how to correct my errors and put me on the right path totally
astounds me!!!
Now you may all be just as rude back but I feel I am just in sounding
off in this manner because this wasn't the welcome I expected what so
ever!!!!
Or do none of you have proper manner and are really as crass as I have
been led to believe about most Americans!!!!
N
natashab
Thank You Andy for you appear to be the only one that wishe to put seem
polite critism my way and how to set me on the right path.
Although a little slatting it still gives comes across in the right
manner
now could you please explain why it is a bad ide?
polite critism my way and how to set me on the right path.
Although a little slatting it still gives comes across in the right
manner
Andy Dingley wrote:
now could you please explain why it is a bad ide?
L
Leonard Blaisdell
"natashab said:
You posted to a group full of HTML professionals. You might easily have
a group of friends that say your site is awesome. But everyone here can
probably do it better. If you lurk here and keep your ideas to yourself
for a month or two, you may learn something. You may even learn how to
ask questions, quote properly and contribute what you know. Read what's
posted for a few weeks without feeling a need to contribute. Get a feel
for the place.
That's a broad statement, and I'm sorry you feel that way. There are
plenty of other countries represented in this group. Unfortunately, it
seems to be the consensus that your site is not awesome or up to the
standards of this group. Again, stick around and learn something.
You might want to reread criticisms posted to your article and learn
something.
I'm an American, but I try hard not to be crass.
leo
C
Chaddy2222
Take a look at http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com I noticed your useing anatashab said:
few of those items on your site which are considered to be bad web
design practice.
C
Chaddy2222
Leonard said:
Yes, I could not agree more.
Yes, besides, this is an unmoderated newsgroup, it's not like those
webbie boards. (forums where the mods delete that stuff that's not on
topic).
Hmmm, I have been lirking and posting in these groups for a far while
now and I am still learning stuff, as an example before I started in
these NG's I was clueless to what CSS was and only started considering
useing it after several remarks a long the lines of "your site sucks Oh
and learne CSS".
I would also recommend Googleing the answer to a question before
posting so you don't waste our time with questions we have answered
over and over and search the archive of this group as well.
Oh and you need to come to the realisation that your site will not
"look the same" on all browsers.
R
Rob Waaijenberg
natashab schreef:
[snipped]
You're a beginner in building websites and you haven't gotten around yet
to learning CCS. That's when you get all the criticism that you've got
here. Better to read a couple of books on the subject (must be a library
where you live) or better stil: visit a couple of sites.
I read a lot of postings from people who ask for sites about HTML and
CCS, but with just a little effort you'll be able to find them yourselve.
By the way, my name is Rob and I'm the one who's website you are
promoting on the next line
I did not know or realize that you had a limited supply of queries
available. And I'm not going to apologize for using one of them.
This is what the web is about: people will click on any and all links,
buttons or other clickable objects the come across.
This happens quite regularly on usenet.
You probably haven't been around long enough to accept it as a fact of life.
Again, if you had been around a little.......
I'm Dutch
I want to add a little comment about your 'present'.
You told us that your website was a present to somebody else.
I appreciate your good intentions, but look at it this way:
would you knit a sweater for somebody if you don't yet know how to knit
the arms? Would you hand it over if it was full of holes? Or loose threads?
I sincerely hope you will come back to this group (and maybe others)
and use it to learn more about building websites.
Rob
[snipped]
You're a beginner in building websites and you haven't gotten around yet
to learning CCS. That's when you get all the criticism that you've got
here. Better to read a couple of books on the subject (must be a library
where you live) or better stil: visit a couple of sites.
I read a lot of postings from people who ask for sites about HTML and
CCS, but with just a little effort you'll be able to find them yourselve.
By the way, my name is Rob and I'm the one who's website you are
promoting on the next line
I did not know or realize that you had a limited supply of queries
available. And I'm not going to apologize for using one of them.
This is what the web is about: people will click on any and all links,
buttons or other clickable objects the come across.
This happens quite regularly on usenet.
You probably haven't been around long enough to accept it as a fact of life.
Again, if you had been around a little.......
I'm Dutch
I want to add a little comment about your 'present'.
You told us that your website was a present to somebody else.
I appreciate your good intentions, but look at it this way:
would you knit a sweater for somebody if you don't yet know how to knit
the arms? Would you hand it over if it was full of holes? Or loose threads?
I sincerely hope you will come back to this group (and maybe others)
and use it to learn more about building websites.
Rob
C
Chaddy2222
Rob said:
That's a dam fine effort and you aut to be congratulated.
I reckon I know why you did it as well, but I am glad I am not the only
one who does the same thing while seeing if an author has put in the
effort and used some form validation.
I especially like turning off JS and sending as many blank form enties
as I can.
And I am Ausie.
Yes, depending on if I disliked the person, as sending them a present
such as that would prove how much I disliked them. (Not that I condone
disliking people), although I felt I needed to come up with some kind
of smart-arsed comment.
J
John Hosking
natashab wrote BY TOP-POSTING, which is not the desired way in alt.html,
but which John has fixed for her:
Hello natasha. You don't have to introduce yourself. Just be.
This is certainly meant to be helpful and relevant to you. If you're
trying to learn HTML, wouldn't an online tutorial be useful?Again, Beauregard is trying to understand your problem. Your original
question was not too clear (and I still don't understand what happened).When there are (many) validation errors, it's a sign that the desired
results are going to be elusive. This comes up so often here (and in
similar NGs) that it's just standard practice to run a page through the
W3C validators.
Beauregard and Neredbojias seem to be directly addressing your query,
that is, they *are* supporting you. As is so often the case, the
discussion drifted from one response to the response to the response.
That happens, and it's to be expected (although we always hope it stays
NG-relevant).
[snippage]
did originally. If your friends changed the code you sent them, it's a
matter between you and them, isn't it? How can we help?
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, and at c.i.w.a.stylesheets. You
won't understand everything at first, but keep trying. Try to follow the
discussions.
you've learned, but since you mentioned it, it got discussed. And some
disgust. Andy's comment was disparaging, but if you say, "I'm learning
all this great stuff!" and we look at your code and it's not great, that
will lead to a discussion of the quality of education, evidenced by the
quality of the work.
may migrate away. That's normal. Sorry about the OT digression to
beverage production, but that eventually got labeled as such.
You made your post, we asked for more info and offered a tip, and so
we've pretty much fulfilled our obligations to you (but BTW, we don't
*have* any) until you show up again with more info.
I'd bet that barely half of the posters here are Americans. Where'd you
get your assumption? Because you felt mistreated?
I don't see why you liked Andy's reply, but not Beauregard's or
Neredbojias's. The drift to beer-brewing was unrelated but organic. The
thread is what it has become. Try to participate positively (without
top-posting) and we'll all (you, us, the next newbie) benefit from it.
Good luck.
but which John has fixed for her:
Hello natasha. You don't have to introduce yourself. Just be.
This is certainly meant to be helpful and relevant to you. If you're
trying to learn HTML, wouldn't an online tutorial be useful?Again, Beauregard is trying to understand your problem. Your original
question was not too clear (and I still don't understand what happened).When there are (many) validation errors, it's a sign that the desired
results are going to be elusive. This comes up so often here (and in
similar NGs) that it's just standard practice to run a page through the
W3C validators.
I'm sorry you got such a negative impression. But the responses from
Beauregard and Neredbojias seem to be directly addressing your query,
that is, they *are* supporting you. As is so often the case, the
discussion drifted from one response to the response to the response.
That happens, and it's to be expected (although we always hope it stays
NG-relevant).
[snippage]
I still don't get this. Or, I uderstand what happened even less than I
did originally. If your friends changed the code you sent them, it's a
matter between you and them, isn't it? How can we help?
Fair enough. Good plan. Lurk here, at
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, and at c.i.w.a.stylesheets. You
won't understand everything at first, but keep trying. Try to follow the
discussions.
Well, we don't know anything about the course(s) you're taking, or what
you've learned, but since you mentioned it, it got discussed. And some
disgust. Andy's comment was disparaging, but if you say, "I'm learning
all this great stuff!" and we look at your code and it's not great, that
will lead to a discussion of the quality of education, evidenced by the
quality of the work.
Once you ask a question/make a post, it's up for discussion. The talk
may migrate away. That's normal. Sorry about the OT digression to
beverage production, but that eventually got labeled as such.
You made your post, we asked for more info and offered a tip, and so
we've pretty much fulfilled our obligations to you (but BTW, we don't
*have* any) until you show up again with more info.
I'd bet that barely half of the posters here are Americans. Where'd you
get your assumption? Because you felt mistreated?
I don't see why you liked Andy's reply, but not Beauregard's or
Neredbojias's. The drift to beer-brewing was unrelated but organic. The
thread is what it has become. Try to participate positively (without
top-posting) and we'll all (you, us, the next newbie) benefit from it.
Good luck.
A
Andy Dingley
natashab said:
You're welcome. I hate to see bad coding techniques being taught, and
I _really_ hate to see newcomers being taught them, as if it's the best
that it gets.
As I said, good HTML isn't just better, it's also far easier --
particularly if you're taught the right way from scratch.
Mainly because it's cheapskate. And wide experience of cheapskate
hosting suggests that if they're bad for one aspect like this, they'll
also be bad for other aspects that you really care about, like service,
reliability, or not wanting to relinquish a domain name that you've
registered and paid for.
Technically, framed hosting has some bad effects on search engines
(search the group archives) but it's the commercial aspect that mainly
makes me worried.
A
Andy Dingley
natashab said:
You think this is bad? You should see the response you'd get in
c.i.w.a.h !
This is a HTML group. There's a tendency (and not a good one) for
everything to be picked apart strictly in terms of a very narrow HTML
view. This isn't good because it's boring (we can all see the same
problems just as well) but mainly because it always forgets to look at
the big new question in favour of the obvious technical trivia.
Your site is a lot better than stuff I've written in the past. My work
today is a lot better than your site. I doubt if either of these is
surprising, nor is it helpful to anyone to pick holes in beginner's
sites. You need a broad direction of where to go next, not a critique
of where you've been -- give it a month or two and you can work it out
for yourself.
By learning from the right sources to begin with. It's easier to learn
from them than it is to _find_ the good ones! Most (almost all, in
fact) HTML tutorials, books and courses are the most appalling rubbish.
I only know of three books worth reading by beginners, and one of those
I'm still not certain about until I read the new edition for myself:
Head First HTML & CSS, Cascading Stylesheets by Lie & Bos and possibly
Elizabeth Castro's new HTML book.
J
Jonathan N. Little
natashab said:
Not sure what type of "support" that you were expecting, some
"Barney-fied" saccharine cheer that "Everyone's a star!" and "Your
effort is all that counts!" Folks here expect when asked for advice to
give *real* advice.
Why, would rather ask advice from someone who knows *less* than you do
on the subject? You are not being put down but your work was criticized
and problems were identified and solutions were supplied. Sounds like
helpful advice to me.
Sometimes "free" has a *real* price. There are some very real
impediments to such arrangements and hosting. Can be a real handicap,
especially for a beginner.
True, but would you not say that it would be easier to learn something
correctly once, rather than learn an obsolete method only to have to
unlearn it to relearn the correct method? BTW, the current method of
HTML & CSS is far easier to maintain then à la 1995. There are other
benefits as well.
Which is exactly what BTS offered! Maybe you should traverse the link he
suppled:
See http://htmldog.com/
I believe others here will agree that you will gain much from the
information offered. Read it, digest it, try again with your site, and
come back when you want some real dialog.
Not sure what you hoped for? Would you attempts to build a house without
researching carpentry, or farming without knowledge of seed, soil and
fertilizer?
Believe it or not we all were beginners. Whether or not you progress
beyond such status depends on you and whether or not you are receptive
to learning.
As he stated, he did nothing wrong. Links are to be used. If your form
requires certain valid data, it is up to you, the designer, to put
validation into your script. If not, your form is most likely a handy
tool for hackers to relay spam. When you are ready to learn many here
can advise you as to methods to secure your form.
The only rudeness I have seen is your reaction. There were honest
attempts to assist you in this thread.
What can I say, this is not a productive way to ask for assistance, and
does not speak well for your etiquette.
B
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
natashab said:
Since you chose my post for this reply, I feel compelled to answer, even
though the early-rising non-Americans have already addressed most of it.
Sorry you don't like succinct replies. Hey, I could have spiced it up
with lots of smiley faces and attached some happy music, right?
Your first step would be to dump this:
What?! Pardon me for not checking my crystal ball first! Where in your
original post did you state that you send your web site *files* to the
friends? The friends *edit* the files, and then you ask how they got
changed? <phew!>
You said: "because somewhere along the line of having a few friends
check on what I had created it now appears that the coding is entirely
different than my HTML I orginally wrote for it"
Perhaps your *friends* are the ones using "MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" and
they should be reading the advice here about proper authoring?
And you will, if you keep your ire in check, and study (and act upon)
the responses you've gotten.
I for one am curious as to what/where this "course" is located.
Trust me; you weren't slagged.
"Welcome to Usenet."
"Welcome to Usenet."
More than half of the respondents in this thread are not Americans.
By the way, your computer appears to be infested with the malware known
as "FunWebProducts." Your header indicates it:
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1;
{FC139AA5-EB29-4C23-BF32-60A94FDAF0B1};
FunWebProducts),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
Read this:
<snip rest>
Please don't top-post.
J
Jonathan N. Little
Beauregard said:
Wow, so glad MS got it right with version 7! Actually that is not very
fair to Big Bill, hard to keep customers safe and secure if they
"voluntarily" install malware on their systems.
S
Stan McCann
You are apparantly new to usenet as well as new to HTML. Reading the
FAQ posted here each Thursday may help you to understand this group
better. Each group is different; your initial post would have been
great on one of the alt.support groups where helping each other is what
the group is about. This group is a discussion group that discusses
HTML matters. By reading the discussions here, you can learn an awful
lot. As others have pointed out, you asked a bunch of professionals an
obscure vague question. All of the replies, while seemingly cold, were
meant to help you.
What did you expect? Imagine painting your very first painting and
asking to put it in a professional art gallery.
A "free" gift? Not much of a gift.
Pay attention and learn the modern way so you don't have to relearn
like most of us here have had to. There is a large site that still has
my name all over it done in the 1995 methods. Many of the pages were
created back then although the information has been updated.
You can if you want. This is a great place to learn, but you also need
to learn a lot about the way usenet works.
You should be "down on" your choice of education if you find that it is
flawed. I taught HTML and CSS the correct way. I was disgusted to
find out that other instructors teaching the same courses did not even
know what the first line of an HTML document should be (document type
declaration). They had no clue about the W3C or validating code. I
can only guess that there are many schools out there with this kind of
teacher.
Again, this is usenet which you have much to learn about. Threads
morph all the time.
I may seem to be crass and rude too, but my true intent is to help you
understand what you are dealing with.
B
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
Jonathan said:
Social Engineering ... not Practicing Safe Hex ...
K
K A Nuttall
natashab said:
Some people would rather spend fifteen minutes putting someone down
than spend 15 minutes helping them. That's just the way things are.